Episode 126 – Dr. Soraya Safi, “The Forever Associate Dentist”

Soraya Safi, D.M.D. is a coach and mentor to dental students and associate dentists. She helps associate dentists maximize the flexibility and freedom of choosing associateship over ownership and coaches them on how to overcome the isolation that often comes with such a challenging job, all while effectively navigating professional relationships and developing their dental skills after completing their formal education.

While associateship may not be viewed as a long-term career choice for many dentists, Dr. Soraya Safi emphasizes that associateship doesn’t have to be just a step on the road to practice ownership. Not every dentist wants the long hours, risk, and responsibility involved with owning his/her own practice. In this episode, Dr. Safi discusses the importance of a good associate employment agreement, strategies to build trust with patients and staff, and the opportunities for continuing education and coaching that are available to associates.

Listeners who are interested in Dr. Safi’s coaching can book a free consultation with her at drsaficoaching.com. Check out her Instagram @theforeverassociatedentist or email her at drsafidental@gmail.com.

Listeners who want to reach out to Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach out to Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-Law.com. ‍

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Full Episode Transcript

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Bumper: Welcome to The Dental Amigos Podcast with Dr. Paul Goodman and attorney Rob Montgomery, taking you behind the scenes of the dental business world. All the things you didn't learn in dental school, but wish you had. Rob is not a dentist, and Paul is not a lawyer, but since Rob is a lawyer, we need to tell you that this podcast is for informational purposes only and shouldn't be considered legal advice. Listening to this podcast does not and will not create an attorney-client relationship. As is always the case, you should formally consult with legal counsel before proceeding with any legal matter. Learn more about The Dental Amigos at www.thedentalamigos.com. And now, here are the Dental Amigos!

Rob Montgomery: Hello everyone. I'm Rob Montgomery, and I'm joined, as always, by the Head Nacho himself, Dr. Paul Goodman.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Good to be here, Rob.

Rob Montgomery: It's good to see you, Paul. And welcome everyone to another episode of The Dental Amigos Podcast. Today, we are joined by Dr. Soraya Safi, who is also maybe better known through her Instagram account @theforeverassociatedentist. She is a practicing dentist in Southern California, where she works three days a week. And her side hustle, so to speak, is her coaching and mentoring of dental students and associate dentists, which is really a passion for her. And she, Paul, is a champion of dental associates.

Dr. Paul Goodman:  Love it.

Rob Montgomery: And today, Soraya is going to talk about her mission and what she does for associate dentists, and talk about some things that dentists should think about when they are taking associate positions, and what that can mean for their career. So without further ado, here's Soraya Safi, welcome Amiga, and thanks for being on the show.

Dr. Soraya Safi: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here today to discuss being an associate, especially in today's climate.

Dr. Paul Goodman: We start off with some hard hitting questions, Soraya. What is your favorite Nacho topping? If we were going to Southern California, where would we go for nachos? Where do you live and what's your favorite topping?

Dr. Soraya Safi: So for nachos, we would go to Javier's in Newport Beach, California. It's a great little Mexican restaurant. My favorite topping I would have to say is the cheese sauce. So I'm a big fan of that too. Like, you can't have nachos without that, in my opinion. Love that.

Dr. Paul Goodman:  We're going to talk to you about a lot of things, but you were just at Super Dentist Boost Camp before, and Rob was a speaker there before, we asked about Super Dentist Boost Camp, which I'm very proud of. I'm most proud of our world class dining here in Philadelphia. Where did you eat while you were here that you really enjoyed?

Dr. Soraya Safi: We went to Buddakan, which was absolutely delicious. It was Asian-fusion food, I believe. And there was not a thing that did not taste, you know, good. Everything was absolutely delicious.

Dr. Paul Goodman: One of my favorites. And you were so kind to come to Super Dentist Boost Camp. We became friends through the amazing Dr Desiree Asden. And I think you told Mrs. Nacho, who you're now getting to know, that you didn't really know what to expect. But what did you think of the Super Dentist Boost Camp experience?

Dr. Soraya Safi: You know, I went in to it very open, because I really didn't know what to expect, and I've learned that's the best way to go into things, because you get more out of the experience. And what Super Dentist Boost Camp, what I wasn't expecting, I guess, or what was the best thing I got, was meeting everybody there, the energy in the room. Everybody was so friendly, and helpful. I feel like sometimes, you know, with dentists, there's a lot of gatekeeping, yeah, you know, when you want to learn something, or you have a question, there's, you know, they can be vague, or things are generalized when you ask a question, but people here were so kind. Were very helpful, exchanging information. I feel like I made some really great connections and possibly long term, met a lot of great people. And the event itself, the way it was run was unlike anything I experienced. I've been to, like these big summits and conventions, and sometimes you just go to it, listen, and then go back to your room, or whatever it is. This here was set up like an actual camp. It was very cool, because every day you sat next to someone new, you talk to someone different. The only way I can describe it is a warm experience, like a cozy experience. And so I really, really loved the vibe of it.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Thank you, it really means a lot. I appreciate you. You contributed so much, and one of the things I've said, and Rob and I are both friends with Mark Costas, and he went to his event, and I was on his podcast. Being a dentist, it's easy to feel alone, even though you're surrounded by people. So Super Dentist Boost Camp is supposed to change that, and have you leave with new friends and feeling less alone. So thanks for sharing that. Rob, you know, he's tied for one of the top most number of times spoken at Boost camp. He's been doing it since 2018 so he gave a great presentation again. Or we co-presented., that's right

Rob Montgomery: It was fun with our live podcast, so to speak, and you know, and I met Soraya, I was able to wrangle her to be on the podcast. How often do you get an in-person invitation to be on a podcast?

Dr. Paul Goodman: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Soraya Safi: I know that was amazing. I mean, I loved our conversation there too. I feel like I could have talked to you for hours, you know. So it was great.

Rob Montgomery: Well, let's, you know, let's continue the conversation today, so our audience gets to hear. I think your mission is really, really awesome, and what you're doing for the associate dental world, but before we really get into that, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and kind of how you have made decisions in your career to be an associate and have you considered being an owner at some point in time?

Dr. Soraya Safi: Yes, absolutely. So I graduated in 2012 from Midwestern University, and I was so excited to go work. I thought, you know, I'm here to finish school. I'm a doctor now I'm going to go perform dentistry, and I'm going to get paid, you know, and it's going to be great. The stress is done. I have made it, and quickly realized, once I started working, that that was not the case. It was very stressful and the experience was actually demoralizing. We didn't make very much, did a lot of procedures. I just felt very alone and isolated in my associateship, you know, surrounded by a bunch of people, and I thought that's all it was. And this was dentistry.

Rob Montgomery: What kind of practice was that that you were working at at that time?

Dr. Soraya Safi: At that time, it was a large DSO.

Dr. Paul Goodman: One of the things I think is awesome to continue to share, things are different, and things are kind of the same, because you're talking 12 years ago, and the things you're sharing are exactly what I'm hearing. You know, if we have time, I'll tell you a DM from my phone. So how did you find that first job? Did your school prepare you to find a good job? Was it just by chance? I mean, it drives me Nacho Nuts how little dental students were prepared to find a job. So how did you find that one?

Dr. Soraya Safi: No, it definitely wasn't through school. It was actually I had about a year off between dental school starting and graduating undergrad. And what happened was I just walked past a dental office in my neighborhood and asked if they were hiring, and I got a job as a receptionist there. Turns out that that small practice was actually part of a larger DSO, which I didn't know what that meant at the time, so when I finished school, I kept in contact, and then that's how I was able to get the job because I already knew, but there was no talk or mention of this is how you go you find a job or anything like that. And after that position, too, I went on to Craigslist, or Indeed to find these jobs. And you know, the best jobs I got were the ones that were by word of mouth or another dentist, or someone I knew in the industry had recommended. And I know that Dentist Job Connect is one of those services that matches up and is made for, specifically associates and practice owners, which I think is a great way to go. And wish I had that and knew about that at the time.

Dr. Paul Goodman: I appreciate that. I mean, one of the things I share is, you know, desperation causes disasters in any decision, and the more choices, the more chance of success. And it's just mind boggling to me that dentists kind of operate from the 1800s still, and how jobs are being found, and we need to do better, because, you know, students continue to have more debt. They've put their whole life's work into this. And I just think it's crushing to hear, you know, you were demoralized with your first job.

Dr. Soraya Safi: It was. And, you know, like you said, that's not something unique to like, 12 years ago, I get messages from so many associates who are having either a hard time at the practice they're working at. They're not getting paid what they're worth. They're not getting paid on time or not getting paid at all. And so I think to know that there's a service where  the practices have been vetted. You already know what you're getting. It's coming from a trusted source. I think that is honestly invaluable.

Rob Montgomery: So you said you're working your first job, large DSO, you look around, yeah, just feel unsupported. You feel lonely. What was your next move?

Dr. Soraya Safi: Like you were asking, if I had ever considered owning a practice, and that's what ended up happening, was because I had such a bad experience, I was like, You know what? I think I need to open up my own practice. And even though I really didn't know what that meant, as far as, like, what kind of responsibilities that was, it was a fear-based decision for me. It was more like I didn't have any other options. And I find a lot of associates end up going that route because they just don't have a great experience being an associate. So they go on to do their own thing, even though they don't necessarily want to. And so I started looking into that, met an attorney who then connected me with another dentist who gave me a great opportunity, and really had boosted my confidence at that time. And you know, then I was just like, Okay, this isn't so bad. And even though I was looking into practice ownership at the time, I ended up getting pregnant and not feeling very good during my pregnancy, and had a difficult time, and I quickly realized I can't have two babies. I can't have an actual baby and then start a business at the same time, because both were very new for me and with my personality, that just wasn't going to work.

Dr. Paul Goodman: And I want to say, Soraya, I'm never going to miss a chance for this joke, but it'll help. I've said this many a time, you know, if you're having a real human baby and a practice baby at the same time, it's gonna be stressful, and no one offers to come hold your dental practice and take care of it for you. So when you have a real human baby, people come out of the woodwork to support you, and it's normal, good support, but no one is gonna say, Hey, I'm gonna help you with your practice inside of this strip mall on the weekend. They say, No, thanks, it's not the cutest baby. So I think that's such a good point.

Rob Montgomery: Not only do you have a baby, you also are the baby, right?

Dr. Soraya Safi: Yeah, absolutely. And so then for me, that's, you know, when I realized, Okay, I'm going to stay an associate. And, you know, went on to different practices as well, and each one very unique, very different, had their pros and cons. And with each office I went to, I learned my lessons. I observed. I saw how people you know acted, the experience from management, owners, assistants, hygienists, everyone. And the common theme in all of it was it really takes a team to make an associate successful, like your clinical experience. And I mentioned this at Super Dentist Boost, will be by far the easiest part of your dental career, because you will learn that you will get your CEs that's the easy part. It's everything else that contributes to making you a success, which is your office manager, your practice owner, your assistant hygienist, how everything, all of that, comes together. There is building your schedule and building you as an associate so that then you can be successful financially and emotionally So, that's what I learned, and that's the stuff you don't learn in school.

Rob Montgomery: And that makes perfect sense, right? But how do you find that? How do you vet that? I mean, it's like as an associate, you go on an interview or two, maybe this particular practice, you think everybody seems nice, but like what questions should you be asking? How do you figure out the good from the bad before you've accepted the job?

Dr. Soraya Safi: There's two things, right? I mean, to be honest, you don't really know a practice until you really start working there. But there are some safeguards, right? And the one is, as far as contracts go, making sure you have a good contract, one that is fair. And you know, having an attorney take a look at that, just to make sure, especially if you're just starting out, so that you know what your rights are, what is normal, what is standard. Because some of these contracts, they have stuff that is very scary for associates like you have to pay back like $20,000 if you, you know, break your contract early and get out.

Dr. Paul Goodman:  I want to jump in for a second, because I'd love for people to hear this point. And I want to bring Rob in. So I was literally on the phone last night at 9:30pm after my Zoom talking to a dentist that "I follow Dental Nachos, and I know I'm not supposed to do this, but I'm going to have my dad's friend look at my contract. I said, No, you're not. You're going to hire a dental focused attorney. And Rob, why is it important to have your contract reviewed even if the DSO or office is not willing to negotiate, some people say, I'm not going to have it reviewed because I've heard they are not willing to negotiate. So maybe you guys could both add value. Even if you are getting a contract from a group with a track record of not negotiating, you still want that reviewed.

Rob Montgomery: So I mean, they're the agreements that you absolutely have to have those reviewed, because even if you don't hire a lawyer necessarily to negotiate a contract, sometimes that's a role that a lawyer plays. But you hire a lawyer to counsel you on an agreement. Part of the counseling process is to understand what you're signing yourself up for. And you know, as Soraya said, if there's a signing bonus, if you don't stay on for a certain period of time, you need to give back. You need to understand what the ins and outs are. What are the nuances you know? Can you be terminated without cause on the one-year right anniversary of working there, such that you have to pay back $20,000 or does it only kick in if you give notice, you know? Or, yeah, and so like understanding what it is. This is what I mentioned the Boost the other day,  it's a theme that I like to use when I give presentations in a lot of settings, Paul and Soraya. It's contractual awareness. Understanding what's going on around you, the legal equivalent of situational awareness. What's in the agreement? What do I have to do? What can they do? What can the ramifications be? The most important thing that spills over with covenants, not to compete, termination, provisions, bonuses, things like that.

Dr. Soraya Safi: I have a coaching client who started a job, was there for a little less than a year, and they promised to pay a percentage of collections and/or daily, whichever was greater, and the associate produced over her daily. And then the owner, Doctor just didn't give her what she was owed, as far as whatever went over. And I asked the associate, what did your contract say, what did you sign? She said, I didn't sign the contract because I heard contracts are usually one-sided or for the benefit of the owner, you know. And the owner had mentioned, like, Oh, you don't need to sign. You can sign it later, you know, and had technically no way to recoup that had just been paying the daily and not even the daily that was promised and was still working there, because just didn't know any different and didn't know how to, you know, like ask and have the conversation of getting paid. And so we ended up discussing, and she found another job. And she had actually quite a few opportunities. And the one she went with, she then was like, What do I do as far as my contract? She was going to accept what it was. And I was like, No, this is where you go into negotiations. You need to have an attorney take a look at this. Don't just accept what they are giving you. You can talk. And you know, I heard, when you do a negotiation, a good negotiation is when both parties aren't fully happy, because that's a fair negotiation, right? And so then, and she ended up getting some things that she wasn't expecting, you know? And it's all because associates, if they don't know what they don't know, they're afraid to negotiate. They're afraid to ask for what they want.

Dr. Paul Goodman: And one thing I'll share, Rob is, you know, I don't lie, but I'll use words to my advantage. So if a patient says to me, Oh, how come I can't pay $100 a month for the next two years for my dental care, I go, our accountant says we can't do that anymore, right? And like, did my accountant, Rob, come in one day say you guys can't do it. But that's sort of his vibe, right? His vibe is like, hey, so when you have an attorney helping you, you have an arm's length away from somebody advocating on your behalf. And for these new dentists, it's just overwhelming to deal with on stone. The one thing I'll add, Rob, is the way to tell if you're going to like a job is the being the dentist fly on the wall. Hey, Dr. Rob, this seems like a great office. Would it be cool if I came here for a day? I'll wear scrubs, I'll sign any HIPAA consent forms. I would just like to observe not working, observe what goes on. I'd like to see what happens here during a normal day. And Soraya knows, and I know Rob that I could walk into a dental office and know in under two hours of doing it, if it's going to be a fit for me. When you meet people after hours or at Starbucks or things like that. It's not their in-game thing. So if anyone gets something on this podcast, observe a day in the game and there before signing anything. And there's just heartbreaking stories of dentists moving across the country, signing leases, getting there the first day and not being paid, not having enough patients, not being paid. So I just want to add that value, dental- focus, attorney review and observe before you sign the contract.

Dr. Soraya Safi: Yeah, I agree. And one of the ways you know if you're in a good office or not, and I like the question that you guys had asked before, sometimes it's not until you start. But again, the safeguards are to have an attorney review your contract, feel, speak with the assistant, speak with the front desk. Don't be afraid to ask questions, you know. And one thing that I've learned is when whoever's interviewing you, like whether it's the owner or the manager, of course, you want that job and you want to be a candidate, but ask them questions, because if they can't answer you, or it makes them uncomfortable, or they see you as maybe a red flag. That's also a red flag you don't want to work in a place like that. That's a blessing in disguise, in my opinion. So that would be my advice. It's asking those questions that you want and that you want to know. Like I said, I was coaching another client, and they were asking about, Oh, should I ask about maternity leave or anything? Like, absolutely you want to know what to expect, and if they can't answer, or if that turns them away, that's not a practice you want to be working in.

Rob Montgomery: It's a great point. I think we talk about this with clients frequently, that the contract negotiation process is very much a litmus test, right? You are looking to associate with the practice, or you're looking to partner with a practice, and the other side is being really unreasonable during those negotiations. There's absolutely no reason to believe that they will be more reasonable, right? You have signed this contract, so even if you know it's just going through that process just to gauge how they respond to questions and requests it is an important part, too. And then in we are our style, you know, not letting out any kind of, any kind of secret, you know, if we're representing a young associate, we very much pick and choose what issues we want to raise because, frankly, it's a different level of review, or, I should say, revision, to an agreement if it's a first associateship versus somebody paying a million dollars for a practice, right? And so we don't want to negotiate the associate out of a job. But there are certain things that you know when you we hear and see that a contract from a practice is, quote, unquote, not negotiable. That's a big red flag, right? You know, guess what else is not going to be negotiable. Everything you know and work in a place where nothing is.

Dr. Paul Goodman: It also just seems like so unreasonably dramatic to say that, right? Like I've hired associates, hired all kinds of people through all the things I do. If I said, everything we say here is not negotiable. I couldn't even get the words out of my mouth. There are things like the office isn't going to necessarily open up another day just because the associate wants to work on Friday instead of Thursday, right? So something like that might be impractical to change. It's a better way to put it right. But you know, if someone said, Hey, I there's no way I can do Tuesdays, because this is the one day my child does this, I might be able to work around it for me? Well, yeah.

Rob Montgomery: And to me, they're reasonable requests, and that's a reasonable response to me when, when I see that or hear that, I know that this means that the party on the other side wants to have a uniform agreement across the board with all their associates in their organization, which also tells me that this associate is going to be a number, right? Yeah, yeah, right. Associate number 127 right? Because we want all of our agreements to be exactly the same, so, you know. And that, in of itself, has somewhat negative connotations, or certainly something that you need to be aware of and comfortable with. Like, some people like being number 127, right? And other people don't, you know. And if you're somebody that isn't comfortable with that, then maybe that's not the greatest opportunity for you. Usually those are the practices that have a revolving door of associates. You're not going to be the first one there, and you are not going to be the last one there in those positions.

Dr. Paul Goodman: So I'm 22 years after dental school. You're 12 years after. Talk to us about this, because I think it's so key this, you know, what should dental students expect in this transition? What makes it challenging? What should GPR grads expect? I think there's just so much unknown. And you know, bring us to today with what you're hearing and seeing with your coaching and people DMing you someone's listening as a D4 saying, I'm applying for jobs. What are some things you think they should expect to be aware of in this transition? And why is it?

Dr. Soraya Safi: The reason I believe the transition from dental student to dentist is can be challenging or difficult is because we have to have that money conversation, right? And a lot of the times, depending on which area you go to, and if it's, you know, a bigger city or a more populated area where there's a dentist on every corner, what happens is, like, at least in Southern California, the contracts aren't great for dentists that are just starting out, and so your income is not going to be necessarily great. And there's so many things that factor into it. It is like the contract you have, whether it's 25% 30% Do you have a daily, Do you not have a daily? Things like that. That is the number one stress factor, right? We have bills to pay. And so then that's one thing. Then the other thing is, is, are you working five days a week, making, let's say 120 a year, you're doing fillings, you're doing proceeds, you're doing exams, or you're doing things that are essentially not very productive, especially if it's insurance based, right? And so that's very tough for most dentists getting out, or dental students getting out. And then the second thing I would say is the fear. We're just so scared of making a mistake or trying something new, and we wish that we had someone holding our hand, you know, finding someone you can trust, and a lot of the practices, whether it be private practice or a DSO, promise mentorship and the senior dentist is nowhere to be found.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Great point. I just want to add in, for this theme and Rob, it might not be as on brand for attorneying, because you guys have this ability to do it through Zoom. I tell new dentists to ask, How often will I be the only dentist in the office? And if they hear most of the time, not all the time, that alone is a reason not to take that job, because if you cannot remove yourself from you operatory, and say to a bigger, stronger dentist, is this normal? I just think that can be a really difficult transition for a new dentist.

Dr. Soraya Safi: very patient is so different. Every procedure, it's not cookie cutter, right? I mean, eventually you find your flow, but in the beginning, definitely everything is kind of new, because you're seeing so many patients, it's so fast-paced compared to dental school. And so that's the other thing, jumping from chair to chair, and then dealing with team members, likeif you go to an office and the assistants have been there for 10 years, the front desk has been there for five years. 15 years. The office manager has been there for 20 years. The practice owner is usually very excited to have you there, because you're going to alleviate some burden. You're going to make them, you know, money, that is how you are viewed. But that surrounding staff is looking at you like who do they think they are. What do they know? You know, let's see what they have like that. You know, it's like you kind of have to prove yourself. And what new dentists don't understand is that aspect. And so when you do get that pushback, that attitude, or you want someone to do something a certain way, you can't just go into an office doing that, and that's the stuff that I really like go over so that it works for associates, so they can make that associateship work for them.

Rob Montgomery: That's a great point. So what are some strategies that you use or recommend to young associates to implement if they're in that situation?

Dr. Soraya Safi: So a lot of the times when you go into that situation, I think connection is key. You want to be friendly. You don't want to be friends, though, and if I am dealing with an assistant who has been there like the lead assistant has been there for 10 years. I'm going to ask them questions. Hey, you've been doing this for a long time. What is it you've noticed? Or what do you recommend? You know, they love when you ask them questions. It makes them feel seen and heard, and it doesn't make them feel like you are going to, you know, wield your power or control over them. It's not going to be friction-based, you know, it's going to be collaborative. It's going to be teamwork. And so when you come from that place, instead of a place of authority, they are, you're likely to win them over that way.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Todd Fleischman, who's been on our podcast, and even he says that's why, if practice owners are listening, you really should have a pretty significant onboarding process where the associate and dental assistant can work together. I mean, because it's like you're doing a group project together, and when you're having to do that in front of paying patients immediately, it just can be very difficult, and I think that your points are so important that you have to win them over, but the "and" part to that is you're also in charge of infection control. You're in charge of how the how the procedure turns out, and the way that they've done it might not be in line with acceptable standards, and that happens frequently, right? And that's difficult. I think one of the things Soraya's been sharing Rob, is that often these associates just are the only dentist in the office with these people. And it, it's just a Herculean, slash, nearly impossible task. And I think they should really dig in with their owner with that because you see, the theory of expanding your practice by buying another practice, putting people in offices. It's difficult on these new dentists to have to be thrown into that. I think your training is spot on, Soraya. What are some other things? How does your coaching go over? Let's turn it to this, when patients don't trust the associate, when the patients don't want to give them a chance. Any tips that you have for your associates when they're dealing with that?

Dr. Soraya Safi: Oh yeah. I mean, there's always going to be that, right? But then that's where your team comes in again, because in order for them to even see you, or, like, before they even meet you, like, the office has already notified them that they're going to be seeing you, right? Then sometimes they get pushback, and that's where the connection comes in, because if you built that connection with your front desk, your manager or assistant, they're going to talk you up. They're going to say things like, Oh, she's my dentist, or he's my dentist, they've worked on me. They work on my family members. Give them a shot, you know. And if you don't like it, you can always go back.

Dr. Paul Goodman: We can dig into our next episode, working interviews, which I'm not a fan of. But one thing that might be helpful is every team has a list of things that they need done in their own mouth. And maybe the practice owner could say, hey, at no charge to your team, you're going to get to get this work done by our associate, and I'm going to make sure it goes well. And that magical trio of them together doing it. When the team can say, this associate's my dentist, they help my family. That really is, there's nothing more helpful when it comes to trust.

Dr. Soraya Safi: Yeah, absolutely. And that's how they're going to trust you. Is when the staff trusts you, the patients will trust you. And so it's all about building that connection with your staff and winning them over, essentially. And going back to, you know, what you're saying about going into an office and like things are subpar, if that is the culture in the office, you're not going to necessarily change that, then maybe that's not the right fit. And it's time to, you know, look for other positions or other offices, because it's one thing to deal with something here and there that you can fix or change. It's another thing, if that is the culture there, okay, not going to change

Dr. Paul Goodman: When you want to leave an office, because it's not the right fit, Rob, that's not the best time to be looking at the contract for the first time, right?

Dr. Soraya Safi: Literally, one of my coaching clients recently was looking at their contract, and had, you know an attorney take a look at it, was concerned about well, if I break the contract, how much am I going to have to pay? Something about credentialing, because they have to pay back the credentialing fees. And I was like, see, that is a great question you should ask. That is something you want to know. You want to know that number. Don't wonder about it, because you want to have concrete information, gather your information, and then if the owner shies away from answering that or doesn't want to, then this is business. These are contracts. These are conversations that need to be had, and you need to be able to ask these questions and advocate for yourself.

Rob Montgomery: Any associate agreement that has a provision in there that requires the associate to reimburse the practice for expenses incurred in connection with credentialing that associate - that is a triple red flag. Run for the hill!

Dr. Paul Goodman: To say "I've never seen this before", for Rob, that's a tough one. Sorry, before we finish up, but you had a great post last night. I want to turn this last two minutes to encouraging associates to better. You said, CE courses and coaching are important things. I often find that dental students spend $500,000 on their degrees, but then they're unwilling to invest time, energy and effort and money into getting better. So I'm here to kindly annoy them. Tell us what you meant when you said, to be a successful associate, you have to look for good CE courses as well as coaching.

Dr. Soraya Safi: Yeah. So, you know, as far as CE, it's a return on investment, right? If you've been an associate, or you're a dental student, there are certain things you don't know and want to learn more. It's not going to come through necessarily osmosis, right there. People have done this before you. They have, like, carved out a path it is best to invest now and save yourself time, and that return on investment will pay out in dividends. And the reason I say this is, I remember when I was younger, I would look at CE courses, and I'd be like, Wow, 3000 5000 6000 that's so much, you know, I don't want to invest. And I had a shift and change, and I was just like, You know what? I'm going to start spending some more money on these CE courses, and how many of these cases and on things that I'm actually going to do and implement. And the because my office has the materials and the technology for me to do this. And, you know, I, like, took a C dots course, and it was on digital workflow, workflow for smile designs, and it's paid. I can't tell you how much I have made on just that one course that I took, and if I had never done that, I would have never had the confidence, the courage to move ahead and do that, nor the know-how, necessarily right. And so to me, it's a no brainer. And say. With coaching. People have done this before you. There are so many things to learn and to watch out for that gives you again, the confidence, the courage to go out and do that, and you spend, like X amount of dollars, but it can, and you know, most likely, increase your income significantly, and also your peace of mind.

Dr. Paul Goodman: And it makes dentistry more fun. The theme of Boost Camp, don't be dentist cheap. There's these, these amazing new dentists, right? They say, Oh, I can't afford any CE courses. Graduated from dental school, and I go, I just saw you in Positano on your Instagram Story was that free dental students. So I say, Do both. Figure out a way to do both. Fun is important, but I think, you know, as a middle-aged dentist, at the end of the day, you can fo on one less vacation. This will pay more.

Dr. Soraya Safi: The return on investment is great. Or, you know, borrow money, if you have to, again, you will be able to pay this back. But again, like again, quality CE courses, quality coaching, right? Because not everything is, you know, created the same. I have taken CE courses, and I wish I had known this when I was younger, that the office didn't have the materials that were needed to perform the procedure correctly. Or, you know, to the best of our abilities, and that money was wasted, and I wasn't going to be able to invest in the equipment. And, you know, at the end of the day, it was a learning lesson. I won't do that again.

Rob Montgomery: That's awesome, good stuff. This has been great, continuing our conversation from from Dentist Boost. So Thanks for taking the time and and sharing all of your experience and knowledge with our with our listeners. And so if people want to get in touch with you or learn more about the Forever Associate Dentist or your coaching, how would they do that?

Dr. Soraya Safi: Yes, if they would like to, they can follow me on Instagram @theforeverassociatedentist, and they are welcome to message me. I believe my email is on there as well, too, and I look forward to hearing from people.

Rob Montgomery: Thanks again, Soraya, it was great having you on the show.

Dr. Soraya Safi: Likewise, thank you for having me.

Dr. Paul Goodman: It's so key to have somebody who's, you know, to use the term "on the ground" with these associates, you know, 12 years after graduating, but just connecting with them and can share her experience. I mean, authentic. Or if I work for my dad after my residency, I don't have the context of having four jobs in two years, and when they can talk to someone who said, Hey, I took a job at a corporate group that just I felt unsupported, make sure not to do that. It's what these new associates, new dentists need.

Rob Montgomery: Yeah? Well, I mean, everybody needs a mentor, yeah. Well, when you're a young professional, and you know, just hearing Soraya talk about that experience of being and hearing you talk about too over time, that lonely, isolated associate. Who do you go to? You have to have somebody, right? And Soraya is that somebody for a lot of people. And what she does on her on her Instagram account, and what she does with her coaching is just so impactful for your dentist. I mean, everybody's got coaching these days, right? That's where we are in this time of the world. In 2024 you have coaches for your nutrition, yeah, personal trainers for your fitness, all kinds of stuff. Like, there's no reason not to have a coach for your profession.

Dr. Paul Goodman: And for that really was like the next step in your career. I mean, the next step for these dental students and GPR and age years is like, I need a job that doesn't make me cry inside every day. You know, I've spent eight years, I've done all this stuff, and I just think having someone like her as a resource who can help you, and then also has the context of all these other stories. I mean, I have them as well, and some of them are successful, some of them are scary, and you can learn from both.

Rob Montgomery: And that’s what we provide to our clients, yeah, which is learn from all those that came before you. But, I mean, if you don't have somebody like this, you're just gonna bumble around. And will you eventually probably land on your feet or get into a good opportunity, quite possibly, yeah. But like, do you really need to go through that struggle? I mean, you can avail yourself of just good advice. Why not?

Dr. Paul Goodman: If you ask anyone, do you want to skip being annoyed? They say, Yes, I'd like that, right? So you can skip being annoyed by asking people who've done it before. Thanks, Rob, good time. Appreciate it.

Bumper: Thanks for listening to another great podcast with the Dental Amigos. And don't forget to tune in next time to have the dental business demystified. If you're looking for more information about today's podcast, you can find it on TheDentalAmigos.com.

If you're looking for Paul, you can find Paul at drpaulgoodman.com and if you're looking for Rob, you can find him at yourdentallawyer.com. This podcast has been sponsored by Orange Line Media Group, helping dentists and other professionals create content people love. Find out how we can help you take your business to the next level at www.orangelinemg.com. Till next time.

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