This week, the Dental Amigos welcome Valerie Woo, D.M.D. entrepreneur, pediatric dentist, and dental consultant. She leverages her extensive experience to consult, guide, and mentor dentists, helping them transform chaotic practices into thriving, well-organized businesses. She integrates leadership, marketing and operational systems into customized programs, providing strategic guidance that is both practical and compassionate.

Dr. Woo discusses her journey from the beginning of her career as a pediatric dentist, to growing her practice and selling to a DSO. Then, she and the Amigos talk about her use of personality assessments to better understand one’s strengths and how they align with the demands of practice ownership. Dr. Woo emphasizes the importance of personal growth and challenges, outside perspectives, and accountability.

To get in touch with Dr. Woo or schedule an initial discovery call with her, visit her website www.drvaleriewoo.com. You can also find her on Instagram @drvaleriewoo.

Listeners who want to reach Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-law.com.

‍

Full Episode Transcript

‍

Bumper: Welcome to the Dental Amigos podcast with Dr. Paul Goodman and attorney Rob Montgomery, taking you behind the scenes of the dental business world. All the things you didn't learn in dental school, but wish you had. Rob is not a dentist, and Paul is not a lawyer, but since Rob is a lawyer, we need to tell you that this podcast is for informational purposes only and shouldn't be considered legal advice. Listening to this podcast does not and will not create an attorney client relationship. As is always the case, you should formally consult with legal counsel before proceeding with any legal matter. Learn more about the Dental Amigos at www.thedentalamigos.com. And now, here are the Dental Amigos.

Rob Montgomery: Hello, everyone. I'm Rob Montgomery, and I'm joined, as always, by the Head Nacho himself, Dr. Paul Goodman.

Paul Goodman: Great to be here, Rob.

Rob Montgomery: Paul, it's good to see you. And welcome to another episode of the Dental Amigos podcast. Once again, the only podcast co-hosted by a dentist and a lawyer. We are special. Today we're joined by a very seasoned dental practice consultant and dentist, Dr. Valerie Woo and Valerie is going to chat about what it's like to own practices, and the journey and being a practice owner and doing all those things and wearing all the hats that we all know, and balancing that with your personal life.

Paul Goodman: Dentist balance is not easy.

Rob Montgomery: No, it’s not and it's not just dentists Paul, lawyers, it's any professional practice. It's not an easy thing when you're making the donuts and trying to take care of things, and helping patients and clients and managing your team and everything else. But yeah, Dr. Valerie Woo is an accomplished entrepreneur, pediatric dentist and devoted mother of four. Over two decades of experience, she has made a significant impact in the dental community through her innovative approach and dedication to excellence. Doctor Woo founded Nova Pediatric Dentistry and Orthodontics in 2006 and quickly established it as a premier practice known for its exceptional patient experience and servant leadership. After selling her thriving pediatric dental practice in 2021, Dr. Woo founded Valerie Woo Consulting, and now leverages her extensive experience to consult, guide, and mentor dentists, helping them transform chaotic practices into thriving, well-organized businesses. She integrates leadership, marketing and operational systems into customized programs, providing strategic guidance that is both practical and compassionate. Her approach is deeply influenced by her own entrepreneurial journey, which we're going to talk about today, which includes the challenges and triumphs of starting, scaling and selling a business and excited to have her on and now, without further ado, here's Dr. Valerie Woo welcome Amiga, and thanks for being on the show.

Dr. Valerie Woo: Well, thank you for having me on the show. I'm really excited to talk.

Dr. Paul Goodman: We start with hard hitting questions. So if we were in your area, where would we go for nachos, and what's your favorite topping?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Oh, well, the place is down the street from us. The practice is Uncle Julio’s, great place to have nachos. And my favorite topping, I would have to say, are the jalapenos.

Dr. Paul Goodman: I like it if I'm down there. I want to try Uncle Julio’s.

Rob Montgomery: That's a popular answer, Paul. I think if we actually did like a study, we could go back jalapenos and guac. Paul, what is your favorite topping?

Dr. Paul Goodman: We've never asked mine. So I do like the Macho Nachos at El Vez. They're served on the pizza pan, and so they're all one layer. All the toppings are blended in perfectly. I do get the shredded chicken ones there. I like all of the guac and the standards, but the shredded chicken Macho Nachos at El Vez are my favorite. Thanks for asking, Rob.

Rob Montgomery: There's a place in Philly called Loco Pez that's great. And I am pretty much vegan, so they have a temper Nacho there that's got all this great stuff. Yeah, the good food there. You can bring your dog with you. It's a great place. Any place you can bring your dog is a great place. So let's get into this stuff. So, Valerie, how and when did you get into the dental world?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Oh, gosh, so let's see. I didn't always want to be a dentist. In the beginning, when I was in kindergarten, I thought I wanted to be a pediatrician, and so it wasn't until I got my braces, when I was a sophomore in high school, is when my orthodontist kind of looked at me and said, you know, have you ever thought about going to dental school? And I said, no, I had no idea. And it wasn't until then he kind of planted a seed at that point. But I kept, you know, thinking I wanted to be a pediatrician, but. At a time I was in college, I started, I was still in braces, and so when I would visit my orthodontist, for my for my checkups, he asked me, like, how organic chemistry was all that kind of jazz, and he said, Are you sure you don't want to at least intern for me to see if you want to go into dental school. So he, he was very instrumental in kind of making me see the world of dentistry. So it worked. And, you know, I graduated from college early, and because I was trying to understand what Dentistry was all about. So I graduated early, and I worked for him, as well as at the National Institutes of Health. I was an intern there as well, and I applied to dental school, and I went to Harvard, and that's where my love of children came about again, and I didn't even know that Pediatric Dentistry was even a specialty. So, I mean, that's how little I really knew about dentistry going in. And all of my professors were like, you know, you're going to be a pediatric dentist, right? And I said I didn't even know it was a thing.

Rob Montgomery: And why did you think they thought that?

Dr. Valerie Woo: I think it must have just been that they could see my passion for kids. I think just every time we were working with kids in the dental clinic, my eyes just sort of lit up, and they knew that I must have just had this personality and this sort of gift with kids. I think that's why, even when I was a kid myself, I always loved babies and I liked to babysit and just all of that. So I think just kind of children always put a spark in my eye. Then I went straight to residency, I went to Children's Hospital in Boston, and while I was there, I thought I was going to stay in Boston, and, you know, all my attendings were going to give me a job. And my parents, I grew up in Maryland, and while I was in dental school, they moved across the river to Northern Virginia, and they, you know, my mom was like, I really want you to come home. You know, we moved to this really booming new area called Loudoun County, and, you know, she did all this research, and she said that it was the fastest growing county in the country. And she was just like, there's going to be a lot of kids here when you start your own practice.

Rob Montgomery: Mom’s doing some good demographics for you here, Valerie.

Dr. Valerie Woo: Yeah. And what's crazy enough is, even 20 years later, it's still one of the fastest growing counties in the country, still. So it's insane how many kids are here. And so while I was a resident, I was a second-year resident, and my mom said, you know, you should come down. And so I went down with my husband, and we looked for real estate to see if there was a place for us to start the practice. And lo and behold, I found like one spot that was for sale, and it was the last one in 2004.

Rob Montgomery: So you did this was a startup, you bought the real estate for a startup?

Dr. Valerie Woo: I bought the real estate for a startup when I was a second-year resident.

Rob Montgomery: Oh, wow. Okay, cool.

Dr. Valerie Woo: And at the same time I found out I was pregnant.

Dr. Paul Goodman: A lot on that Nacho plate. Now your life's there.

Dr. Valerie Woo: Yeah. And what was even crazier was because I took the boards in dental school. I had taken the NERVES, and it only took me down to Maryland and DC. And so when we found the real estate, there was a caveat in it that said that I had to be a Virginia state-licensed doctor to purchase the real estate. So then, in order for that to happen, so I was a second-year resident, I had to fly back down to Virginia and find patients. We all know what it's like to find patients to take another board. So my mom was one of them. And then I just, you know, I had an attending who left Harvard and started practicing in Virginia. So she found a couple of patients for me, and we had to drive them down to VCU, and I thought I failed the boards, the state boards, and my mom was my last patient. She was my perio patient, and my husband was my assistant. And I was crying during that, when I was doing her cleaning, because I was like, I failed, and I was telling my mom, I was like, I'm going back to Boston, like, this is not going to happen. Mom, I'm so sorry I failed. It's not going to happen. So then my husband and I flew back up after the board flew back up to Boston, and I was like, What is wrong with me? I don't understand why I'm so emotional. And then I looked at him, and I go, I need you to go get a pregnancy test for me. Lo and behold, I found out that I was pregnant while I was taking the board. And so that was like November of 2004 and we came back home for Christmas, and I thought I had still failed, because it took a while for the boards to come back. And then in January of 2005 I got the letter that I passed, and then I called my realtor, and I go, okay, looks like I'm getting the loan. Let's go ahead and buy the space. And so it was so crazy, like my second year of residency, my husband and I, we had bought a condo in Boston. I had all those school loans, and then now they just gave me another loan to buy this real estate. So we were paying, we were paying two mortgages at that time, with the real estate. And then when we moved down to Virginia after I graduated, we still kept our Boston condo, and then we bought another townhouse to live here because I was going to have a baby. I was supposed to live with my parents, but I didn't want to have a baby living with my parents.

Rob Montgomery  Understandable.

Dr. Valerie Woo: So then, while I was a resident, all of my attendings helped me figure out how to put the space together. I got another loan to get all the equipment, and I graduated in June. I moved back down to Virginia in July, and then I had my baby in August, and I saw my first patient in January of 2006.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Wow, that's an awesome story. But I want to say a couple things from your story. One, why are orthodontists so happy? Okay, why are orthodontists so happy? They don't have to make anyone numb, Valerie, or drill on teeth, so I call it fake dentistry. So they're very happy. These orthodontists, we have Paul Etchison on, so no wonder they're happy and tell people to become dentists. And the other thing is, you know, as I'm sitting here, I'm just getting so angry about our generation of the live patient boards. I mean, it was, it's an embarrassment to our profession that they made us do this and find our moms and get people to come do this. I mean, thankfully, Rob, to update you and Valerie, there's, like, only a few states left that require live patients.

Rob Montgomery: Glad to hear that, because when hearing the story, it sounds nuts, like it's beyond nuts. Valerie, your husband, is he a dentist, or they have his assistant?

Dr. Valerie Woo: No, it's just like you get a family member.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Yeah, that's really unfair and toxic. And the fact that they can't take that our dental school degrees and say you can get a license, or the fact that Valerie passed the NERVES, which I took as well and it wasn't good enough. It just shows you how problematic dentistry is. It's one of my giant pet peeves, the live patient boards, the boards in general, are absurd. So kudos to you for going through that gauntlet of insanity, Valerie, yeah, I want to get into your other stuff. I just want to ask one question so my wife, my wife, who you met, is a kindergarten teacher in a past life, and she could never teach high school kids. And then if you talk to a high school teacher, they would freak out with kindergarten. So do you feel the same way about dentistry, where you'll take your wild and occasionally screaming kids, you don't want to see 47 year olds or 58 year olds for dentures and Adult Dentistry. Is that how you feel about dentistry? You're glad to have your people.?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Yes, that is correct. I would take, a screaming five year old over an adult.

Dr. Paul Goodman  Pediatric dentists are special people, just like kindergarten teachers.

Rob Montgomery: Yeah. So you open the practice in 2006 and then eventually sold it in 2021 correct? And are still working for the practice?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Yes, I'm still the leader, myself and my orthodontist, who is my partner, three years into practicing. So when I bought the real estate, I guess I should say I had an investor buy part of the real estate with me, because I couldn't, I didn't want to. It was all it was a big space. It was like over 4000 square feet, so I didn't want to buy the whole space. So I found an investor to buy like 1500 square feet of it. And then three years later, I was able to expand the office and hire an orthodontist who has been my partner since. And so then we became a dual specialty three years into starting the practice.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Tell us, Valerie, you said you sold your practice, but you still work there. And even though I know this story, you've partnered with the DSO. What motivated you do that? What have been some of the pros of doing that, and maybe any challenges you've had because, you've sold your practice, but you're still working there, so kind of unpack that for our audience.

Dr. Valerie Woo: Sure, happy to. So, as we continue to grow the practice, both my partner and I grew it, it was a large practice, and we, at that time, this was right before COVID, we had known that it was potentially going to be challenging for us to find both a pediatric dentist and an orthodontist who'd want to work together to try to buy us out, and whether or not they would be able to get a loan big enough to buy us out if we partnered that way. And so during COVID was sort of our eye opener. When that happened, we weren't sure what was going to happen to dentistry at that time. I had other colleagues who had sold to other DSOs during COVID. And so we started that process, and we went through with a broker. So it's kind of like the Bachelor, where we got to meet lots of different DSOs that we could see whether or not we shared the same core values and, you know, the different stages of where they were in the DSO. So we were able to partner with a DSO who did share the same values as us, and they weren't just starting. They had some systems in place. So we liked that. But then we also like the fact of where we were going to be in in that organization. I believe we were office number 42 or practice number 42 when we sold and we were the first pediatric office, because it was more for GP. And so they had plans of wanting to add specialties into the DSO so that we knew that we would also be able to be leaders in the organization as well in the practice. So that's what we found appealing by partnering with this DSO. And so it's been a great partnership, because I know that there are some that want to change everything. But with this organization, they do believe that the dentist is the true leader of the practice, and they like the dentist to stay for as long as they can. We’re only a seven year organization, so even from since I've been there, not many of the dentists have left, like the leaders who have sold, everybody still that I know has pretty much stayed, and maybe there's been a couple that have retired. So that's what I like about it, is that they still want us to be there and be the face of the practice and help. I personally have two pediatric associates, and my partner orthodontist, also has an associate. So that's where we are, in a place where we can kind of pass along our knowledge of what we've done for the practice, and kind of leave a good legacy moving forward.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Sounds like you found the right fit there, and as we move into our next topic is this career transition what created an opportunity for you to start your own consulting business? Tell us kind of the start of that, because that's much newer than your practice. Did it create more bandwidth or free time for you to explore also doing something else?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Yes, so that is correct. It was a win-win for everyone. I wasn't completely ready to leave the practice, and I'm still not, so that's why I do like the freedom of having associates and being able to mentor them and still lead the practice in that fashion, but it does allow me to have the freedom to have other time to help not only my current associates, but then other dentists who are in different stages of their practice career, where I can help guide them, and kind of lead them in certain ways, where I'll teach them kind of the mistakes that I went through and to help them in that aspect. So that's what I've really enjoyed right now, is being able to help these dentists with all the different issues that come along the way, depending on where they are in their practice journey.

Rob Montgomery: Yeah, that's great. And what is the typical profile of the dentists you like to work with?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Well, right now, the ones that I guess I seem to be navigating, or kind of magnetizing to, are startups, probably in that nice little realm of either startup to like, one to five years are where you know, they have the eagerness of their clinical skills, and then are just overwhelmed with all the different aspects of the dental business that I think, even as an associate, even if they had associated somewhere else, I don't think as an associate, many see kind of the behind the scenes that it takes for the dental owner and what they do outside of the practice, as well as while they're still treating patients, what else is going through their mind? So I'm doing a female success program right now, it's an eight week course program, and today, tonight is actually session five. And I love my students. They're eager learners, and just very open and authentic about the issues that they're dealing with. And, it's crazy when you just see that everybody has the same issues and that just not a lot of people talk about them. I know that obviously, Paul's got a great Facebook page where a lot of people talk about stuff. But it's amazing all the issues that no matter what year you are in practice, it's all the same.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Tell us, Valerie, I love this, and I know one of our Super Dentist Boost campers, I think, has been connecting with you. We talk about overwhelmed practice owners and stressed-out practice owners, but tell us, not revealing their names or anything, but like, tell us for someone who's listening to this, who might be an associate thinking I want to get into ownership, you know? And you're coaching these owners tonight, right? And what are the specific overwhelm factors they bring you? And even if they're ones we've heard before, whether it's managing the finances, the team, patient challenges, like, what are some of the themes in these coaching programs, if these are the things that are causing the overwhelm.

Dr. Valerie Woo: A lot of it is that people are questioning their leadership ability and how much that they do have to be the lead and manage the team. And so some of the things during my leadership session, I talk about, if they've ever done a DISC assessment, how they're interviewing their team members, I'm also getting certified in Clifton Strengths training to understand, not only your own specific strengths and to utilize that to your advantage, but also what your team strengths are, and making sure that you have the right people in the right seat. And so you know for sure, team is a huge is a huge issue, and just being able to manage that on a day to day basis.

Dr. Paul Goodman: I agree with you. What's interesting is, I grew up in a dental practice. I did every job except dentist, until I was a dentist, and I still really didn't know what it was like until I did it. So the challenging part about dentistry is, I think the ability to taste-test the career. Not every career can taste that, but it's just hard. And once you're in those positions, and these are your jobs, and you didn't know they were going to be your jobs, but to survive, they have to be your jobs. It's when people like you come in and ride to the rescue, make people feel seen and heard, and give you the tools that just no one's ever given you, right? I mean, I'm still shocked. I mean, just like what you said about, you know, our career, and what it's like to even get licensed and to take all those crazy tests and have live patients that dental schools do not have business courses on what it's like to run a practice.

Rob Montgomery: I think that’s unfortunately the case with most professional schools and graduate schools, school doesn't really prepare you for life after school. And I think that's a problem and a weakness that it's about the theoretical and all this other academic stuff. There's a significant reality after you leave if you're going to practice a profession.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Then I would say, I guess, to both of you, even if this answer is easy, Rob or Valerie, would you rather have someone with no habits or bad habits join your team. No habits or bad habits? I would pick the no habits, right? Sure. So the challenging part is, sadly, for these new grads they get thrust into situations where they have no idea what to do, and sometimes it's an environment where they're actually learning bad habits, not because they have nobody else to talk to, and it's not always bad clinical habits, and then you have to unlearn these habits. We should have a lot of empathy for all dentists, especially the newest ones. Now, because the stakes of large student debt, coupled with the changing business nature of dentistry, it's like, you just have to wear so many hats. I’ll tell you a funny story. I say to my dad, who was an amazing mentor. I'd say, do you ever tell your assistant that they did a good job? And he goes, she knows she did a good job! That was the leadership skills in the 1980s right? I was like, Dad, you should say that sometimes. He also said someone should just follow me around all day and see what I have to do as an owner. And I did, he was right. So the fact that people can come together in your groups, I’m sure it's part owner therapy, part skills. I was putting out a note. It's like dental life skills. You know, we talk about business, but I think it's even bigger. It's like dental life skills, right? Like business, you think of figuring out your PNL and knowing how to pay bills, but it's so much more than that that you need to do to survive.

Rob Montgomery: So leadership and what are some other I hate to use the word “mistakes.” People always say, what mistakes do people make? What are some things and put it in a different, more positive spin on it, a happier spin. What are some things that you see that young startup dentists, early on after their startup, what are some things that they need to work on? What are some common misconceptions or some blind spots that they have?

Dr. Valerie Woo: It's listening to their patients. Sometimes people don't have active listening. They're listening in order to have a response right away, instead of really taking the time to listen to what a patient is saying and then also what your team is saying. I think that is a skill that when somebody on the other side truly believes you're listening, then when you respond back, they know that they've been heard. I think that that's what so many people just want to know, is that they are being heard, right?

Rob Montgomery  

Not easy, though, especially when you're wearing all these hats, to stop and listen to everybody.

Dr. Valerie Woo: Correct. It's a language. So many other things that you're thinking about that you really have to be present where your feet are.

Dr. Paul Goodman: You're right, Valerie. The other thing that's just really difficult is most leaders and organizations, they’re not producing all of the work while they're leading. I am not producing all of the work at Dentist Job Connect while I'm leading their stresses, but I'm the leader, and my team's doing most of the production in dentistry, you're in an operatory producing. Things are happening outside your operatory. You can't even see them, and then your manager or someone will bring to you some challenge, and it's just, I want to call it emotionally impossible to understand all of it. And I just think that's why the burnout factor can be faster than dentists think. Because they just think they didn't know they signed up for all this, and they need people like you to navigate it. I'd say I wish pre-dental students would come to my office and hang out with me on a Tuesday, and then when they see all the chaos and all the stuff happening behind the scenes, they'll say, what's going wrong? I said, what's going wrong? It's just going Tuesday, right? It's just like, That's Tuesday. Because I don't think that they  have any concept of all the things that have to you have to do when running. I kind of affectionately call it these circuses, and that's why, when they can come together, I was just the Mark Costas Dental Success Institute, while I'm a part of that, I just think when you can come together in these masterminds and workshops and work with people like you, it's just a game changer for you as a leader and owner, because you find out people have the same problems as you. But like you said, if you don't figure out how to fix it, it's a long career. And it doesn't matter if you make a lot of money, it's still a very long career, right? Just because you make a lot of money doesn't mean you're gonna be happy.

Rob Montgomery: I think in dentistry, it's especially challenging for small progressions, because so many dentists, I mean, what are your options, right? You can be an associate forever, which is not necessarily the worst thing in the world, right? For some people, you can go work for a big corporate DSO, you know? And some of them are good, some of them are not, or you can be a practice owner, right? And so like, and we look at those three things from a financial standpoint, one of them is way better than the others, right? So now you've got student debt, economic pressure. I mean, I would suspect, and I see it, that a lot of people end up in practice ownership that probably didn't really know what would go into that. And probably isn't something that necessarily naturally is that a good fit? And I think in those situations, I mean, they're the people that need extra love, TLC and coaching even more, because this did not come to them naturally.

Dr. Paul Goodman: I agree. I think it's really interesting. You're taking these personality assessments. One of my early Nacho fans, who was a bit crotchy, but he made a good point. He's not around anymore. He's an older dentist, just not in the group, but he said that all pre-dental students should take a personality test to see if they're fit for this career. And I don't think it's a bad idea, because I think the personality, you can tell me what you think Valerie, the personality type and skill set that's really good at clinical dentistry, can often be in conflict with what makes you a good leader outside of the operatory.

Dr. Valerie Woo: I agree, yeah. Because you made the DISC assessment, right? So there are some because if you're not people oriented enough, because you're so focused on the task or the detail, you know, you have to be able to balance those two in order to be a good leader.

Dr. Paul Goodman: I agree. The other thing I want to share I always thought of this is maybe all business owners deal with this, but dentistry and especially. We're Eagles fans here up in this part of the country, Valerie, and we get frustrated. We get frustrated with the Eagles, you know, Rob gets frustrated. And they're all football players who went to college and played football, and they've been playing football their whole life, right? But in dentistry, and I say this with affection, sometimes you're working with someone who just showed up to play dentistry the day before, and you've been playing dentistry for 20 years, and they say your new assistants here, and they seem like they have a good personality and they don't have any experience in dentistry, and to be able to try to navigate your very technical skill with team members that don't have a background in doing it, it's just very, very difficult as dental dentists and Practice owners.

Rob Montgomery: What are some skills or tips that you give your coaching clients on these issues, are there things that they can try to employ to kind of help them navigate this stuff? Are there things that are generally good for them? Or is this something that's really personal on a case by case basis?

Dr. Valerie Woo: I think it's a mix of both, right? I give them certain tools to incorporate into their practice, and then oftentimes, even though problems are the same, depending on who you are and how you lead, you do different things, right? Because some people may or may not want to go outside of their comfort zone. But, you know, I am a little bit of a growth development junkie, where I'm always wanting to do something outside of my comfort zone so that I learn more about myself. I'm a much different person than I was when I started my practice, and a much different leader than I was when I started my practice over 20 years ago, and it was through the mistakes and the life lessons throughout, whether it was with a patient or with a team member. I did not do everything perfect at all. I think those are the times where you where you have your transformations, is when you make your mistakes, and so it is really being true to yourself and recognizing and acknowledging those and moving through them that makes you better.

Dr. Paul Goodman  Yeah, it’s so valuable, but you need someone outside of your box to help you. I'll tell just a quick story. There was the practice owners that were struggling with their associate, and I gave them some advice, and then they went into the meeting and they said it went pretty well, but I said, you know, you want me to talk to the associate? Just to see. I’m not normal, I like these things. So I said, You want me to just talk to your associate, give my cell phone number. And the associate called me, and we talked about the challenges they were having with the team, and the associate said, at some point, you know, it's just really nice to talk someone and get some outside perspective. And I just think, if dentists get anything from this podcast, and Rob and I talk about this, ask for help, get help outside of your box. You know you can't always solve these inside your own practice. Whether it's five team members or 50 team members, you need someone from outside of your organization to give you the feedback you need to succeed. And it sounds like you've done that, Valerie, and you've taken the feedback, whether it was what you wanted to hear, not wanted to hear from maybe coaches you've had and used it to grow.

Dr. Valerie Woo: I mean, that's correct. That outside perspective, because sometimes when you're so in it, you can't see past the clouds, and so you need that outside perspective from somebody, to be honest with you, and show you a different way to look at it.

Rob Montgomery: I think it's also important just to have, if you when you're going through consulting like this and using it that it forces you to block off that time. And it's so easy to just keep, just put your head down and keep solving the problem state. It's like the old Dunkin Donuts commercial, time to make the donuts, time to make the donuts, you know. And at a certain point that you benefit by stopping and looking at yourself and reflecting and brainstorming about better ways to do it. But if you don't, you know, and you're accountable, as you know, as the coaching client, to somebody and to other people in the group, you know, it's like, okay, on Wednesday night, we're gonna have a session, and I need to be prepared for that, and I need to think about what I've done to work on myself and my practice since the last time we met. And to me, I think that, in and of itself is maybe I don't know 50% of the value.

Dr. Paul Goodman: I'm part of a group like this, and the accountability part's so key, Rob, because I saw someone recently, and I said last time at our session, you were going to terminate a team member. Did you terminate in I said, Oh, yeah. They told me I had to do this within three weeks of this. That wasn't good from organization. And I don't think that person ever would have terminated the problematic team member without having this group help them.

Rob Montgomery: Right. It's just like meeting a friend at the gym. Yeah, it's like, they're going to be there at six o'clock there too, yeah, like and think it's important. Hey, Valerie, so outside of dentistry, what do you like to do?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Oh, so I'm a huge runner. I think you told me that you were a swimmer, or you are a swimmer. So I am, traditionally, I am a runner, as I told you, I try to do different things outside of my comfort zone. And so I I'm sure you guys have heard of Jesse Itzler, so big endurance athlete. He holds a an event called 29029 where it's sort of like, what is your Everest? So, like, what, what is your big challenge? And so he holds this event every year at different Mountains, where you get to experience climbing what is the equivalent of Mount Everest. And so we, a couple of years ago, actually, after we sold the practice of my partner and I, as well as my husband and her sister, we climbed 29029 feet in Stratton Vermont. It was a cool event. We just continued to climb, and then we take the gondola back down, so you keep climbing. So I think we did it in 25 hours.

Rob Montgomery  

And do you, did you sleep at all, or take breaks, or other than the ride up the gondola or the ride down?

Dr. Valerie Woo: Yeah, we slept for like, maybe an hour probably, I think, like, around three to four o'clock, it had started to rain a lot, so we were slipping and sliding, and we could hardly see anything, and so we didn't want to injure ourselves, because we were pretty healthy, and I think we only had,- four more climbs to go, and so we decided to take an hour. We slept for like an hour, and then, as the sun began to rise, then we went back up. And I think we only had three or four more climbs left.

Rob Montgomery: That's really cool, awesome.

Dr. Valerie Woo: Yeah, that was really cool and then he believes in Misogi.. I don't know if you guys know that Japanese term. Have you ever heard of a Misogi I don't.  A Misogi is something that you plan something that will take you outside of your comfort zone and make you become a different person. This is something that scares you so much that you don't think that you can do it, that it takes you a year to, like, contemplate trying to do it. So that was one year that we did it. So this past year, my partner and I, we ran the whole entire Washington and Old Dominion trail here in DC, which was 44 and a half mile that in one day. That was pretty cool. And then along the trail is our practice. And so it was really cool that our team, like came out with posters and signs by the time we got that was probably, I think, mile number 25, something around there, so that they came out to cheer us on. It was cool because it was on a, I forget if it was on a Wednesday or on a Thursday afternoon, morning, and so no, hardly anybody was on the trail, since it was a work day. And so it was pretty cool to just be. We started at sunrise and we ended around. It took us about, I forget how long it took us. Maybe it took us about seven, seven or eight hours to do.

Rob Montgomery: Wow, just another day. So Valerie can join our other amigo, Cliff Moore is another so we’ll have had two ultra marathoners on the show. Good stuff. Awesome. This has really been awesome, and thanks for sharing your experiences and some tips for our audience. If people want to get in touch with you or learn more about what you do, what's the best way for them to do that?

Dr. Valerie Woo: They can find me on my website at drvaleriewoo.com or on my Instagram handle, which is also @drvaleriewoo. And on that website, if you wanted to book a discovery call, there is a link to schedule a call with me.

Rob Montgomery: Great, awesome.

Dr. Paul Goodman: Valerie. Thanks so much for sharing with us.

Rob Montgomery: Yeah, thanks for taking the time, Valerie.

Dr. Valerie Woo: I had a really good time. Thank you so much.

Rob Montgomery: Great, awesome, Valerie.

Rob Montgomery: So Valerie is not sitting still for long.

Paul Goodman:  She's just amazing. And all the different things that she does, and also the willingness to, you know, even though it's these things are said, a lot of times get out of your comfort zone, and it sounds like with both physically business, you know, growth and when you do that, these magical things can happen.

Rob Montgomery: Talk the talk, you better be ready to walk the walk, right? And I think Valerie Woo does that.

Dr. Paul Goodman: To highlight as a fellow practice owner, just as you described her sessions, they're magical because I'm part of something like that. It's just like that. It's just like to have a support group of other dentists going through what you're going through, making you feel like that happens to me too, and then to have a leader that group point you in the right direction. I mean, those things, I encourage our listeners to seek out.

Rob Montgomery: That's great, impactful stuff. Thanks for listening, everybody.

Bumper: Thanks for listening to another great podcast with the Dental Amigos, and don't forget to tune in next time to have the dental business demystified. If you're looking for more information about today's podcast, you can find it on thedentalamigos.com if you're looking for Paul, you can find Paul at dr.paulgoodman.com and if you're looking for Rob, you can find him at yourdentallawyer.com. This podcast has been sponsored by Orange Line Media Group, helping dentists and other professionals create content people love. Find out how we can help you take your business to the next level at www.orangelinemg.com. Till next time.

‍