Episode 131 – Alan Stern, D.D.S. on Empathy, Mentorship, and Gratitude in Dentistry

This week, the Dental Amigos welcome Alan Stern, D.D.S, recipient of the 2023 Nifty Award for “Most Inspirational Dental Professional.” Alan works with dentists who are looking to create a workplace that is productive and profitable and a life that is rewarding and meaningful. As a speaker, Dr. Stern conducts presentations for dental groups focused on redefining what it means to build a better team and rekindling a passion for what matters.

Dr. Stern discusses his journey from disillusionment to fulfillment as a dentist, reflecting on his initial struggles after graduating from dental school, including financial difficulties and a lack of patient acceptance. He shares his personal “AHA!” moment, when he realized the value of gratitude and perspective and their impact on revitalizing his clinical practice. Dr. Stern offers his advice to young dentists facing the same issues, urging them to find community and mentorship.

To get in touch with Dr. Stern or schedule a virtual coffee chat with him, visit his website at www.betterricherstronger.com or send him an email at alan@betterricherstronger.com. You can also check out his book, Enjoy the Ride: Lessons for the Quest to Live a Joyful, Profitable Life in Dentistry.

Listeners who want to reach out to Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach out to Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-Law.com.

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Full Episode Transcript

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Bumper  00:00

Welcome to the Dental Amigos podcast with Dr. Dr. Paul Goodman and attorney Rob Montgomery, taking you behind the scenes of the dental business world. All the things you didn't learn in dental school, but wish you had. Rob is not a dentist, and Paul is not a lawyer, but since Rob is a lawyer, we need to tell you that this podcast is for informational purposes only and shouldn't be considered legal advice. Listening to this podcast does not and will not create an attorney-client relationship. As is always the case, you should formally consult with legal counsel before proceeding with any legal matter. Learn more about the Dental Amigos at www.thedentalamigos.com. And now here are the Dental Amigos.

Rob Montgomery  00:39

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Dental Amigos podcast, the only dental podcast hosted by a dentist and a lawyer. I'm Rob Montgomery, and I'm joined, as always, by the Head Nacho himself. Dr. Dr. Paul Goodman,

Dr. Dr. Paul Goodman: Awesome to be talking to you Rob.

Rob Montgomery: Always, it's a pleasure. Thanks for joining us today, everybody. We have an awesome guest, our good amigo, Dr. Alan Stern is joining us today, and for those of you don't know Alan, he is retired from the practice of dentistry recently in 2023 after 42 years in practice, and now runs a successful coaching business called Better, Richer, Stronger. Alan works with dentists who want to create a workplace that is productive and profitable and a life that is rewarding and meaningful. As a speaker, Alan conducts presentations for dental groups that redefine what it means to build a better team and rekindle their passion for what matters. In fact, Alan wrote the book, Enjoy the Ride: for those who want to get out from the day to day grind and take charge of their roadmap to their preferred future. And as a result of Alan's work, people often share they have more focus, more energy, more momentum, and get the results they never thought were possible. Alan was the recipient of the Nifty award as the most inspiring dental professional for 2023 he's also counted among the top key opinion leaders in dentistry in a recent Facebook poll. On a personal note, Alan, his wife, Fran, recommitted to living a healthy life. Alan has even held a plank for 10 and a half minutes Paul, on his 66th birthday and is constantly pursuing bigger and better fitness goals. And so now, folks, without further ado, here's Dr. Alan Stern, welcome amigo, and thanks for being on the show.

02:32

Dr. Alan Stern: Rob, Paul, it's always good to be with you. I prefer in person face to face, but this is fantastic too. Thank you guys for having me.

Rob Montgomery  02:40

Thanks for coming. Hopefully we will see you face to face soon.

Dr. Paul Goodman  02:44

Oh yeah, excited to be chatting. Alan, we like to ask hard hitting questions. You are an original dental nachos fan, a big part of what we do. So in a nacho-themed question, what is your favorite nacho topping?

02:57

Dr. Alan Stern: Well, I think if I had my way, it would absolutely be jalapenos.

Dr. Paul Goodman  03:01

Oh, spicy. I like it. Alan, absolutely.

Rob Montgomery  03:06

So. Alan, obviously, you've got a great presence on social media. You interact with and help a lot of dentists around the country on a regular basis. What's the biggest or what are some of the bigger issues? I'll say that you hear from dentists that you speak to: problems, issues, concerns that you've encountered.

Dr. Alan Stern 03:31

You know, one of the big things Rob is we tend to lose focus on how special we really are. I think we get so overwhelmed with the many responsibilities that we have. Most dentists I run into, just forget how well trained, well educated and how sacred their work is. Rob, you and I have worked together for a long time. And you know who you are professionally. You're a great lawyer, you're a great advocate, you're a great friend. Why can't the dentists of the world, and this is what I try to get them to focus on, why can't they maintain that same relationship that you have carved out with me in a professional way, and rekindle their passion for the human beings that they're taken care of where they're so focused on we have to get the preps right, we have to get the three-unit bridge Paul. We have to get that to see properly. We have to get the regulatory things in line. We have to make a profit. We have to earn enough money, but it all comes down to taking care of another human being, and that's where the joy of dentistry really is. So we lose the forest for the trees, and I think that's one of the biggest things we see, burnout, and I'm hearing that term so much, guys, and burnout happens, I believe, when we disconnect, when our true core values are not in line with what we're doing. If you're a charitable human being and you're working in a federally qualified health center, your values are consistent with what you're doing, with what you're doing if you are, if you are people-centered, and you are pressured to churn out certain pieces of dentistry under a certain period of time, it may not be consistent with your that your core values. That's where the disconnect happens. I think we can fix all these things by just getting the dentist to focus on the sacred nature of their work and make sure they have a job, or change jobs, or open an office where they are constantly driven by their true mission in life.

Rob Montgomery  05:58

Yeah, that's really powerful stuff. And thank you for the kind words Alan, and listeners, I did not ask Alan to say any of that, but I do appreciate it.

Dr. Alan Stern 06:08

You know darn well I stopped telling lawyer jokes.

Rob Montgomery  06:14

Alan, I'm happy to hear you say that I don't believe you. Now, as long as I don't think you're one that limits themselves the range of their humor and scope of joke telling, and I love you for it.

Dr. Alan Stern 06:28

Humor is so important

Dr. Paul Goodman  06:30

As someone who helped you officially become what I call a retirement age dentist. Many people start with, I went to high school, I went to college, I went to dental school. I did this. Let's do the opposite. You know, you recently sold your practice that you were very proud of, and you know, transitioned from a fulfilling career as a dentist to a fulfilling career as a coach, but you didn't always feel that way about dentistry, right? The way you ended wasn't how you started. So maybe you were disillusioned and demoralized by dentistry, and I see that a lot, so kind of share with our listeners how you were disillusioned and demoralized, and you know what you did to overcome it?

Dr. Alan Stern 07:17

Paul, thank you. You know, you graduate with a degree, you got these letters after your name, and you know certain things, but there's a lot of things you don't know. And you know, the game changed when I graduated dental school back in 1981. Consumerism and regulation and competition were all kicking in. Advertising and Marketing was kicking in, so it was no longer hanging out your shingle. They banged your doors down, and you get rich. And I was confused. I didn't know why people weren't banging my doors down. And money was tight, and people were and I was presenting treatment. I knew what, was right for these patients, and they gave me those four magic words that told me to buzz off. I'll think about it. So I wasn't I was kind of undercut by something I wasn't aware of, and I was lost. Why aren't people buying from me? Why? Why aren't they accepting me as a dentist? And I tried all kinds of things. I hired advisors and consultants and coaches, and I took a lot of CE but it just wasn't working. So I found myself without a mission, without a vision. I had completely lost track of the reason why I went into dentistry, and I would say, for about the first 15 or even 20 years of my life, I was dragging my heels. I had my head down figuratively, and I had the disease that I discovered, called PMD, perpetually miserable dentist that life wasn't perfect, and I couldn't get over it. So what did I do? I bought a big house just to prove to myself that I was the great Alan Stern, and I hired a lot of the big boys coaches and consultants and advisors, and I find myself a quarter of a million dollars in debt with no increase in income to pay it down. And it was almost like some of our young colleagues, the things some of our young colleagues are dealing with today on a very, very similar scale. And I thought the world was coming to an end. And what I did was I figuratively slapped myself in the face, and I with the help of a very good financial advisor, I got the monstrosity of debt off my back, and once that pressure was released, I realized that I could practice dentistry the way I want to practice. Dentistry with my heart first, my eyes and my brain and my hands second. And I connected with my people, and I deepened those connections with every human being that walked in. And I developed the audacity, Paul, you won't believe this, but I actually developed the audacity to ask people for referrals, and it worked. And I put myself out in the community. I rekindled my confidence, my passion for my people and my knowing what I know, and I got out in the community. I gave talks. I was out and about, asking, and it worked. And all of a sudden my cash flow went better. I was happier to begin with. I was even happier when the cash flow got better. And then I discovered that I was not alone. And in my study clubs and in my professional interactions, I realized a solidarity with people, and I also realized, which took me on the track to coaching, that everybody else was having the same problems that I was. I figured it out. I cracked my own code. So I think the trick is to take the pressure off of yourself, to live below your means, and to just practice, do your best dentistry, and keep learning. And through that process, when I stopped trying to prove that I was something, that I wasn't the Dr. Paul Goodman of my time. I was the Allen of my time. I wasn't Frank spear, I wasn't John coy, I wasn't L D panky, I was me. And when I realized that I was quite good enough, the momentum just carried.

Dr. Paul Goodman  11:40

That's awesome. I appreciate you sharing that. I'm going to ask you a challenge. Dental School finally says they have enough time for something. So dental school charges $500,000 and they have four years with these students, but there's never enough time, right? Because they have to memorize the Krebs cycle and how the kidney works and how to make a mediocre bite room. Because that's really helped me. But let's just say some magical thing happens. And they say, Dr. Alan Stern, we have time for a fourth year class, and we have time to teach these students one hour a week via lecture their entire fourth year. There's 50 lectures. What is the topic that you would put into that dental school curriculum for fourth years, for them to avoid PMD, for them to enjoy their career, they've given total control to you. You can make the topic. You could make the course. What would you teach these D fours?

Dr. Alan Stern 12:27

So I am grateful to the Goodman School of Dentistry. Is that what you're saying?

Dr. Paul Goodman  12:31

Yes, 50 hours of content by you. What I want to know, the topics I want these D fours to know. This is what you need to learn to avoid. PMD, all these things. What would be the course?

Dr. Alan Stern 12:45

Empathy, empathy for others, empathy for yourself, learn to listen. You know, the three big things that are going to be emphasized in dentistry of the future and the future is now critical clinical thinking, critical thinking, empathy and good judgment, good listening. So I think the dental curriculum and it's beginning to change. I, you know, there is some validity to, you know, the high emphasis on basic sciences. I still think basic science has a place in dentistry. But I think we need to teach the kids, the students, to prep this way and this way, go here and dentures here, and ortho here, etc. But the thing that's missing Paul and Rob, it's, it's listening skills. Because if you have a patient coming into your office missing every other tooth, and you go right at them and say, Hey, man on all on x, this is it, you'll get 90% of your chewing ability with this all on x. Come on up front and sign it. But you don't know that the individual is perhaps a single mother whose husband left her up to her eyeballs in debt, or somebody who is very scared, or somebody who has not yet gathered the funds or doesn't understand. I think if we if we can teach our young dentist just to step back, take a deep breath and listen to people, and then they can collaborate with the patient to see what is the right treatment plan for them. That's the skill that I think these guys and gals need, and I see it in my in my coaching group, in my mastermind group on the ride, if we just step back and listen and understand that human being and give them the care that will give them what they want, and in a way that's ethical, that standard of care that is either ideal or practical, that is what will help them get out of misery, connect with human beings again. Paul, Paul, why do you? Why do you and I get along very well? Why? Why do I really think so highly of Rob Montgomery? Because both of you guys listen to me. You listen you took the time to listen to me. And, you know, I'm effusive about Rob because he's a great lawyer and a real gentleman, but he took the time, Paul, you and I got to know each other. You listen very carefully and ask me all the right questions, and I do the same for you. When you and I speak privately, we just listen carefully.

Dr. Paul Goodman  15:42

I think it's a great concept, because it's not talked about enough. The end to this, which I agree with you, and not the but is you, you have the opportunity, you know, Dr. Brandon Lay one of my not to intern such a great dentist has. What is that? What is preventing that? If you're talking to new dentist, dental students, and new dentist saying this sounds great, Alan Stern, but you're also doing these masterminds where people are being vulnerable with you. I'm not asking you to reveal anyone's names. What's stopping this from happening is there not enough jobs? Are they jobs that don't value their skill set? Can they not find a job? I mean, you can't help any patient. Rob is a good joke. Alan, he said, um, you have to have an office. You can't have just dental that's nothing. You have to have a dental office. So it's his caution, okay, say it, yeah, yeah. Say it, sorry. Without an office, you can't have a dental office. Yes, right? So it's his caution on reading your leases, right? It's saying, hey, it's his lease material. You got to make sure your lease is set up properly, because if not, you could lose your dental office space, and you can't help anyone. I'm going to take this Alan and say, challenge you more. You can't listen to anyone without a good job. You can't transform anyone's life without a good job. What are you hearing in the associate job space? Or the challenges? Not to be negative, just to share the reality. What's stopping this from happening?

Dr. Alan Stern 16:59

Yeah, sure, sure. And by the way, Brandon is part of my Brandon lab is one of the really richly contributory members to On the Ride. He's he is just an amazing gentleman, and I'm proud to have him as part of the deal. He's awesome. The challenge, the challenges, oh, they're serious. They're really serious, and these young dentists are coming out, and oftentimes they're under the auspices or the supervision of somebody a who does not have 1/10 of their credentials or training, or B is not a leader, but a micromanager, and I think, I think there's a way to handle them, but I'm hearing so many stories now of dentists being mistreated or not treated with The dignity, respect and love that another human being was well trained deserves the pressure to produce, the pressure to do as they're told, the pressure to do dentistry that falls either outside of their comfort zone or outside of what they think is The best thing to do. Oh, my goodness, that is a stress point like nothing else, because these young practitioners, they have serious financial obligation, that serious earning power, they can earn money, but the pressure to do as you're told, and to really push a little bit too hard and perhaps make a mistake or perhaps do dentistry that, as I said before, doesn't conform is not aligned to their core values. That's where we get into real trouble, and that's how we need to develop the empathy skills and the verbal skills to really navigate that very tricky world. And I think when we do that, then respect success, self esteem and happiness, because it is about happiness that's when it comes your way. So coping with those pressures, most of most of young people, most young clinicians, can cope or or can help find help them. Can help find somebody to help them cope when a procedure goes sideways. There's all kinds of specialists and mentors to do that. But when they're under the gun from forces that are not professional or not nice, that's when things get that's when we get into trouble.

Rob Montgomery  19:49

Yeah, interesting. Alan, in talking about your journey, you know, as a dentist and now as a consultant. slash, spiritual advisor, what happens, I've got some theories and suspicions, but tell me, how have you gotten to where you are now from the mindset that you have with everything you're talking about. It wasn't just the debt issue. What happened in your life? or what was the AHA, if there was an aha moment that led you to start seeing things differently?

Dr. Alan Stern 20:36

Have you guys been to Belmar? The aha moment happened running on the Belmar Boardwalk. After everything settled down a basic truth came to me in like a split second. I took an inhale, I looked to my right. I was running north on the boardwalk on the Atlantic Ocean, for those who don't know where Belmar, New Jersey is. I thought to myself, you have more, no matter how much or how little you think you may have. I said to myself, you have more than most people in the world can imagine having, and you have less than some. I always looked around at the very seemingly successful dentist of the world who had these huge houses and these great cars, they seem to take a vacation a different city every week. It didn't matter, I have more than most and less than some. When I looked at Frank Spear and all of the great people that I took CE with put their beautiful work on the wall, I used to think of myself as inferior. And at that moment on the boardwalk, I said, Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You may not be Frank Spear, but you're Alan and Frank Spear and Jeff Rouse and John Coy and all those guys make you better. That's a good thing. And then I came to realize at the time, Fran, my wife and I, you both met her. We're married now, 47 years. The, was oh, we're married 30-something years, with two fantastic kids. Oh, my God, Alan, I said to myself, your life is good. Shut up, enjoy the ride and that's the title of my book, but that is the phrase that popped into my head at that aha moment. Life is good, no matter what kind of problems our colleagues are facing, there are millions and hundreds of millions of people in the world who would trade their problems for our dentist problems today, and no matter how little our young colleagues think they may have, they're doing good. They just need to do a little better if they want to. And I realized, in retrospect, also that I maybe I could have been the master Todd Fleischman restorative dentist, and Todd's just an awesome dentist and a better human being, but I was not able or willing to pay the price that Todd did to get to where he is, and that's okay, I realized, cut out the comparison. Be your best self. Draw, attract the people who like you and who you like, and everything falls into place. So the comparison trap, the perfection trap, the I must do this or else, that went away on that one run on the boardwalk.

Dr. Paul Goodman  23:50

That’s a great, great story, and I think dentists need to know more of that. In the start of my lectures, I share a Instagram post where, I said, What did someone wish they told you your first day of dental school, and it's actually from a new dentist that I wish they told me that there's 100 other people going through the same thing as me, and not everything always looks as great as it seems. And try not to compare yourself. I mean, I do add something to that. You know, comparison could be the thief of joy, and let others inspire you, right? So, you know, when people say, Oh, Paul, you post on dental nachos, that some dentists are making $400,000 and I'm only making $200,000 to say, why not? Let that inspire you a little, right? Ask a minute or, like you said, Alan, you don't have to earn that kind of money. But you know, it's a world where I think what you shared, I tell this to rob often, dentists after dental school are often just by themselves, and it's easy to get lonely by themselves. And they know why people like Dental Nachos so much, because they feel like, hey, this group on my phone knows what I'm going through. And I think it's awesome that you work so hard to make dentists not feel like that. And you know, I joke around with you. When did you graduate from dental school again?

Dr. Alan Stern 25:02

1981.

Dr. Paul Goodman  25:06

So I was four then, but I think it's pretty cool. Rob, you're coaching new dentists, right? And you're not a new dentist. Because these problems are universal, no matter whether you're using alginate or scanning. You know that's a dentist thing, Rob, sorry.

Rob Montgomery  25:23

I appreciate that.

Dr. Alan Stern 25:28

You know, Paul, a couple of things come out of that. First of all, I think a young dentist today really needs to begin to create a vision of what they want out of life. And yes, money is part of it. How much is enough? How much more do you want than your basic minimum, and what are you willing and able to do for it? We have to come to a clear understanding of that, and that can change. That's a roadmap that's flexible, and it changes over time as you change over time. But what are you curious about? What do you want to learn? What do you want to and what do you want to not do ever again? I hated Endo. I'm sorry I was absolutely, positively unwilling to do Endo. I couldn't care less how much more money I could have made on it. It stressed me out. It caused me the bald spot on my head, and I wasn't willing to lose any more hair over Endo. But what? What do you want? How much is your bam, your bare, bleak minimum, and how much more do you want? The other thing that's very important, I was in Minneapolis last weekend with the amazing Mark LeBlanc, who is my business and speaking coach and my dear friend, and it was the first time he held his Whatever It Takes summit in person since before COVID.

Dr. Alan Stern 27:07

I think in-person events, the online thing, my online groups and the things that we all do online with our people, Paul are, are fantastic. And without it, God knows what could have happened during COVID? It could have been a worse disaster than it was. But zoom turned COVID into a into a blessing for so many of us, but now that we have the opportunity to get back in person. You know, the classic example is your Boost Camp. Mark LeBlanc, things for speakers and coaches like me, study clubs. Oh, my God, get out and join a study club, because they're safe environments. They're places where you could really safely talk to your colleagues and exchange ideas about the problems and the successes that you're having. You boost each other up. I think our young dentists, I would encourage all of you to get out and join a study club and be an active participant in it.

Rob Montgomery  28:13

That’s always been one of Paul's rallying cries, and I am right there with him. You know, it's very impactful. Let me just take a step back with this, because I think this is sort of an interesting discussion for me at a lot of levels. I mean, the three of us are roughly 10 years apart, each of us, right? And so much of what I'm hearing from you, Alan, and you and I have talked about this before. You know the the book The Happiness Curve, by Jonathan Roush, like I think that you what one of the great things that you bring Alan is obviously, you're very mindful and you're sensitive and you have great empathy. But you know, when you reach this stage of your life, in your career, you start to see things very differently. And I could say that, you know, as a 56 year old, I see things very differently than I saw when I was 46 and you are roughly plus 10 on me, right? Yeah, I think that it's important for young people. And this is part of being in person. It's this interaction to really, you know, take on and seek mentorship. Because there are great dividends that it will pay, there are certain things that are great with your peers, but there are certain aspects of certainly, what we're talking about that it doesn't come from your peers. It's got to come from somebody who's been around longer, who is at that stage of their life where they are more reflective. And you know, as Jonathan Roush and Happiness Curve, for people not familiar with that book, what he talks about is that for a big chunk of your life, where it's all about being productive and you have to know when to get off of that curve and get to the more sage part of your life, and the people that are truly happy later in life, like what I'm hearing from you, are the people that that were able to make that jump successfully, to realize when that last, when the productivity and trying to win the race didn't matter as much, and you stepped into that next curve and found great joy. There are a lot of older people that never make that transition right, and it's because they didn't realize that really what the benefit is and the joy that exists on that, on that other curve. But I really admire you and look to you as a great example of somebody that was able to make that transition. And, you know, and I think you realize, especially as older as you get, to be an older professional, you need to have a second act, you know, because there's gonna be a time where you just can't do dentistry, law, finance, whatever it is your profession, either physically, mentally or emotionally, you just can't do it as well as you used to. And it could be very frustrating if you're still trying to do that, you know, and it's not as well. And it's like, you know, it's like a runner if you're 50 years old or a swimmer, I would tell you personally and you're looking like, Well, why can't I swim as fast as I did when I was 18?

Dr. Paul Goodman  31:31

The reason why I don't like to play golf much anymore is because I used to be very good at golf, so every time I go out and play golf, the only thing I can really enjoy is spending time with friends, because the act of golfing frustrates me, because I used to be better at it, and that's sort of just a coin thing, because golf is not my profession, and it is just a skill, and I probably should be more centered about it, and think, Oh, if I shoot 85 instead of 70, but If that overtakes your whole life, it's pretty miserable, sure, because you're just like, they're constantly failing every minute.

Rob Montgomery  32:04

I don't blame you I want to play golf if you feel like this has just been a total failure of an afternoon, despite the fact, if I'm with you, hopefully you get something. Yes, I get right, but, but that's it. Like, you know you can, if you're still on that first curve and comparing yourself financially, from a workload standpoint, from a skill standpoint, to what you used to be, it's nothing but disappointment, but when you make that step to the next thing, you really can provide this guidance and mentorship and share your experience and Your sage outlook on things, it makes you happy.

Dr. Alan Stern 32:47

I think, I think you touched on a couple, a couple of really good points. And Paul, you're all right, you're a lousy golfer,

Dr. Paul Goodman  32:58

It makes it part of the way it's more dysfunctional, because to other people that go, wow, you're playing such good golf. I wish I could be like that. And I go, Well, I used to be better at this thing, so I'm kind of, I enjoy hanging with you, but.

Dr. Alan Stern 33:15

Well, I'd be a very lousy golfer because I haven't done it, but it's all being a dentist or being an attorney that's only a part of your existence. Both you guys have great families. I have a great family. I just became a grandpa, which is just the most unbelievable thing. My grandson is one year old now, but over the years, and it happened to me just a little bit sooner, but relatively late in life, Dentistry was just a part of what I am. And I think your point Rob, dentist’s and a lawyer's shelf life like a carton of milk, you have an expiration date, and you have to be aware of the time when your expiration date is approaching. And what I would tell my young colleagues to do is to look for interests outside of clinical dentistry. No, don't walk away from it. Don't burn out on it. Don't just close the door and walk but develop a hobby, develop another skill, develop something you can do when you clinically just don't have it anymore. I think that's very important. I think if you go from a very, very busy life that lawyering and dentisting and probably physicians are doing to nothing, I think that's where you could get really confused. And I'm very glad this just dropped in my lap about 10 years ago, and I realized I had a skill here and something to give, and I developed it over the last 10 years of my career. But I think number one, understand that. Being a dentist is a part of your whole person existence. Get a grip on the good things in life and make sure that you're grateful for all of them. Practice gratitude every single day, because your problems are nothing compared to what a lot of other people are dealing with, and they're manageable, and most of many of us are married. All of us have friends, we have parents, we have children, siblings and friends, and we can do wonderful things. We can have a little bit of fun in life. You don't have to, you don't have to take a private jet to Bali every weekend in order to have a good life.

Dr. Paul Goodman  35:40

I also think on what you said is new you and I are kindred spirits to this is that in dental school, they actually just don't talk about enough about the dentist being happy. They talk about, treat your patients well, make sure they're happy, your team, make sure your team's happy. And I just think hopefully people get from this podcast that without your morale as the dentist, nothing happens. You know, the patients can't be helped, the team can't be helped. And we've seen a profession that has too many problems, some catastrophic with the people inside of it. And yes, there's no reason for it. I mean, you know, it's but like you said, we're more than a dentist, but often no one tells you that in dental school, and they make it this big contest. And even though life's not a contest, we're trained that everything's a contest, and it's poignant. So I think it's awesome that you're a voice for you're more than your crown prep, you're more than your even a lot more.

Dr. Alan Stern 36:33

You're a great human being. You're doing great things, and if you're not, if you're not doing all on X's every 15 minutes, if you're if you're filling teeth and patching teeth and FQHC, you're still changing people's lives, and you're doing things that people are trusting you, and depending on what you do. I mean, nobody can do that. Rob Montgomery can't do a crown prep to save his life.

Dr. Paul Goodman  36:56

He’s going to go to fantasy camp soon. Before we wrap up, Alan in a minute, but I want to know what is the dirtiest word in dentistry to you?

Dr. Alan Stern 37:05

You're making me shake. You're making me shake. It begins with a P, provider. I don't like that word, and you've heard me say this a million times, both you gentlemen have. I think the word provider devalues, dehumanizes us and demoralizes us, and I'll tell you why. I think you know you provide something absolutely but we are trained practitioners of a profession. I would not call Rob Montgomery my law provider. I call him my attorney because he went for four years to school, and God knows how much CE to be the really good attorney that he is. You are a practitioner of a profession. If they lump you in a category, and that category is crafted by forces that are much bigger and much more subtle than we are. They are devaluing us. Oh, you could see this provider, this provider, this provider. You know, you don't you're not a provider with small PPO. So your patients going to leave are going to go to a provider for that, that will go cheaper. It doesn't work that way. And patients are finding this out. You have the ability to be a practitioner, a caring doctor of people, and there's a very big difference. Invest in your relationship with others, first in yourself. Give yourself the respect to wake up in the morning and say, I am Dr. Dr. Paul Goodman, I am trained. I'm a trained professional. I care about my people. Start there and let it emanate outward. And don't let anybody lump it. Oh, yeah, he's a good provider. No, he's a great practitioner and a great doctor of human beings that I believe is the filthiest word in lane in the English language. And I come from, I'm from Jersey, and I know.

Rob Montgomery  39:03

That’s great, good stuff. Alan, thanks for for sharing your wisdom with our audience today, if people want to learn more about what you do or get in touch with you, how would they do that?

Dr. Alan Stern39:19

Best way to do it is really alan@betterricherstronger.com. You could always find me on Dental Nachos or on my Facebook page, Better Richer Stronger. Message me, email me. I will respond to you within hours, and I have actually stopped what I was doing for some of our colleagues who are in really serious distress. So I'm here. I'm here to get you focused, get you happy and pursue the important things in life and be a great dentist at the same time you can do it.

Rob Montgomery  39:54

Powerful stuff. Thanks for taking the time, Amigo.

Dr. Alan Stern 39:58

Always great to talk Rob and Paul.

Rob Montgomery  40:02

I love talking to Alan, obviously, not because he says good things for me, but no all seriousness. I mean, like I said, I think it's important, especially for younger dentists and even middle aged dentists , to really seek out that, that mentorship and that wisdom of older dentists, because he is just such a sage, and it's something that you could just hear it in his voice and his choice of words, that you know he's at that stage, that's his contribution.

Dr. Paul Goodman  40:31

He walked through a difficult time. And I just think it's what's timeless and poignant and sad is that dental school has made dentists feel this way for generations. And hopefully there can be a voice where your morale matters, how you feel matters. You can still do good clinical dentistry and create the career that you want, and they just need to talk about that more, earlier in careers, because dentists can suffer for decades without knowing that.

Rob Montgomery  40:56

Yeah. So, yeah, go check out Alan Stern. He's out there on Facebook. I see a lot of his posts, and it really gives you stuff to think about and puts you in the right frame of mind. I think providing good content for folks. So totally agree. Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening. Always a pleasure Paul

Dr. Paul Goodman:

Thanks Rob.

Bumper  41:13

Thanks for listening to another great podcast with the Dental Amigos. And don't forget to tune in next time to have the dental business demystified. If you're looking for more information about today's podcast, you can find it on thedentalamigos.com if you're looking for Paul, you can find Paul at drpaulgoodman.com and if you're looking for Rob, you can find him at yourdentallawyer.com This podcast has been sponsored by Orange Line Media Group, helping dentists and other professionals create content people love. Find out how we can help you take your business to the next level at www.orangelinemg.com. Till next time.

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