Episode 136 - Cliff Moore, Dentist & Runner: Community Involvement & Thriving in Your Career

This week, coming back for his second show appearance, the Dental Amigos welcome Dr. Cliff Moore, a former Navy dental officer, dental practice owner and ultramarathon runner. For over 10 years, Cliff has dedicated himself to serving his community through his efforts giving back to veterans, providing over $35,000 in free dental care and raising more than $75,000 through an annual ultramarathon event. His passion for service, endurance sports, and dentistry reflects his lifelong commitment to making a meaningful impact.

In this episode, Cliff discusses his strategy for balancing his practice, family, and athletic pursuits, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries to ensure a balanced life. He chats with Rob and Paul about how finding a cause one is passionate about, as he is with community involvement and fundraising for veterans, has a positive impact on his practice and personal fulfillment. By sharing his experience with veteran-focused charities and the impact of his fundraising efforts, Cliff encourages all dentists to find small ways to give back to their communities and use their platforms to help others.

To get in touch with Cliff and his team, visit MooreDentalLewisCenter.com. You can also find him on Instagram @LC_dentist.

To make a donation to Cliff’s upcoming ultramarathon fundraiser on May 3, 2025 for STRIVE, a suicide and trauma reduction initiative for veterans and first responders, click here: The Ohio State University | Tribute Relay for Heroes

Listeners who want to reach Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-law.com.

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Full Episode Transcript

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Bumper  

Welcome to the dental amigos podcast with Dr Paul Goodman and attorney Rob Montgomery, taking you behind the scenes of the dental business world, all the things you didn't learn in dental school, but wish you had Rob is not a dentist, and Paul is not a lawyer, but since Rob is a lawyer, we need to tell you that this podcast is for informational purposes only and shouldn't be considered legal advice. Listening to this podcast does not and will not create an attorney client relationship, as is always the case. You should formally consult with legal counsel before proceeding with any legal matter. Learn more about the dental amigos at www.thedentalamigos.com. And now here are the dental amigos.

Rob Montgomery  

Hello everyone. I'm Rob Montgomery, and I'm joined, as always, by the head Nacho himself. Dr Paul Goodman.

Paul Goodman  

Great to be here, Rob.

Rob Montgomery  

It's good to see you, Paul. And welcome everyone to another episode of the dental amigos podcast, the only podcast hosted by a dentist and a lawyer. We are special and we have a very special guest today, our amigo Dr Clifford Moore is coming back to the show for his second appearance. Cliff is is a great friend of ours, and somebody that I get a lot of inspiration from on a daily basis. I will admit following him on Facebook and Strava and he has an interesting story with how he practices dentistry and what he does in his life that I think is really going to be impactful for all of our listeners. So without further ado, Dr Clifford Moore grew up in a blue collar family in Ohio, pursued his education at Miami University before entering earning his dental degree from The Ohio State University, College of Dentistry, which he'll be happy to tell you, is the home of the 2024 college football national champions. He served as a dental officer in the US Navy for four years under the Health Professional scholarship program, working alongside the Marines at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, and for the past 10 years, Cliff has been deeply committed to his community as the owner of a solo dental practice located just about a mile from his home, where he lives with his wife, Katie, daughter Claire, and son Joe. And beyond dentistry, he has dedicated himself to giving back to veterans, providing over $35,000 in free dental care, and raising more than $75,000 through an annual ultra marathon running event, his passion for service endurance sports and dentistry really reflects his lifelong commitment to making a meaningful impact, both in his practice and beyond. And Cliff is just a great runner, and like I said, a great inspiration for what you can do as a professional physically and give back to the community, and excited to have him back on the show. And without further ado, welcome amigo and thanks for being on the show.

Rob Montgomery  

All right, great. Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Paul. I'm really excited to join you guys again.

Paul Goodman  

Cliff after one of those 17 mile runs, if we were going to go get nachos, where you live, where would we go? And what's your favorite topping?

Cliff  

That's a great question. It might not be my absolute favorite nacho, but there's a new Mexican restaurant about a mile from our house, and we go there a lot because of the convenience and living in the suburbs, sometimes you kind of have to drive to get to, you know, the nicest places, but our kids love this place, Yabos Tacos, independently owned, I know the owners, a couple locations, and I would say some spicy guac. You know, I like the texture, but you gotta, I gotta have some spice on whatever I have, yeah.

Paul Goodman  

One thing before you get into the fitness and fundraising with Rob is, since our last time, you know our listeners, we champion the dental dream of owning a practice and being successful like you have. What would you say is one of the most fun parts of being a solo practice owner? And follow up with, what's the most frustrating?

Cliff  

Oh, yeah, good question. Most fun would probably just be the control. I mean being solo dental practice owner, I decide, you know, for better or worse, what our schedule is, you know, what days we work, what insurances we take. You know, it's a lot of responsibility, but it all falls on me in the end, and that's really how I've always wanted things I don't do super well with authority, despite being in the Navy for a while. And I just like having the weight on my shoulders, and that comes with some flexibility as well, and being able to make those decisions.

Paul Goodman  

I like that.

Cliff  

And, yeah, the most frustrating part might be along the same, you know, lines just, you know, always being the number one who comes to you to put out the fires, and at the day, it's all on you. But I mean, I do like that part. I'd say most frustrating is probably, you know, just those we all know, anyone in dentistry knows is that one patient a day that wants to try to ruin your whole day, you know, the Ruth, or whoever the old you know the old lady is, that wants to just try to ruin everyone's day just shows up miserable. Everyone's heart rate gets up when they see their name on the schedule. You know, we try to do our best to sort of avoid those patients, but they they find their way in sometimes, and that's, it's frustrating. You want to help everybody but.

Paul Goodman  

It'd be nice if we had a like, how tough are you going to make my life questionnaire we could hand out ahead of time. I will share where I say, you know, every time I walk into Rob's office, you know, I always want to be a lawyer, so he lets me write in a legal pad and say things like, you can't handle the truth while we're here. But in all seriousness, every time I've walked in here over the past decade, there's been another attorney here, even today, talking with Rob. And I think I, I don't know if people know this, but I did play solo practice owner on Thursdays for a long period of my career. And we had a satellite practice where every Thursday I was the only dentist on site. And I just think that when you're the only person who can do the thing, and the thing is checking hygiene or drilling on teeth, that can feel like a lot. You know, I think I agree with you, you get a lot of opportunity to control what you can control. But there's multiple assistants, multiple front desk people, but sometimes, as that only dentist who can do the drilling, it can be a lot on someone. So I appreciate you sharing that insight.

Rob Montgomery  

Well you know too, it's like I'm assuming Cliff, and this is the same thing that our listeners have heard me say before, and I'm in a similar role as a professional practice owner, that not only are you the only one that can do the professional dentistry, but you're also the CEO of that, of that business. And yeah, they are two very different hats that you can't wear at the same time, not well. And I always find that for me personally, it's the frustrating thing is just striking a balance between those two responsibilities for sure.

Cliff  

When the other business owners are patients of mine, and I think they're not doing the work they own a business, but they're not baking the bread or whatever. You know, whatever they do not always, you know, obviously there are other professions that do, and it's usually not physical work, you know, if you're doing, you know, if you own a small business and you're, you know, consulting or something like that, but the doing the physical work and managing and being the business person, you know, let alone you don't really get the training in all those fields. But then, yeah, it is not completely unique, but rare that you have to wear all those hats.

Paul Goodman  

Yeah, exactly. If this was a long ploy for me to say, it sounds like you need an ad on Dennis Job Connect to hiring a part time associate Dentist to unlock more freedom, free time, and best of all, Cliff fewer hygiene checks.

Cliff  

Classic Paul cheated.

Rob Montgomery  

That was not in the outline.

Paul Goodman  

Now we can go into fitness and fundraising, but if you want freedom, get an associate dentist, now back to you.

Rob Montgomery  

Hey, so, in our last episode with you, Cliff, we kind of got into, kind of, how you got into ultra marathon running, and so our listeners want to go back on that episode. We'll put it in the show notes, where they could find that. So we're not going to start with the Cliff Moore origin story again. But you know, for our folks, catch us up. You know, since we last talked, you know, where have you been as far as your athletic career, what new challenges have you taken on in running and the great fundraising that you do for veteran charities?

Cliff  

Yeah, thanks. The marathon, ultra marathon world, I've focused a little more on the marathon the past few years. I used to just run those at the end of the ultra marathon season as a sort of, you know, shorter run to do at the end of the season.

Rob Montgomery  

Just a fun run of a marathon, right?

Cliff  

But you know, you have to go really fast in those marathons. That's hard. But the last two years, I've really focused my summers on marathon training, and it's paid off. I dropped about 15/16 minutes in my marathon time and qualified for the Boston Marathon. I'll be running in April. I ran the New York City Marathon in November.

Rob Montgomery  

That's great. Congratulations.

Cliff  

A little bit more in the marathon world than I used to do and and the ultra marathon side, I'd still tie an ultra marathon to a big veteran fundraiser every spring, and that has really grown. Last year, we used to annually bring in, you know, fundraise 10 to $15,000 for a veteran charity, and last year we raised money for STRIVE, which is a suicide and trauma reduction initiative for veterans and first responders. So a PTSD and suicide ideation treatment facility at The Ohio State University, Wexner Medical Center, incredible organization that's literally saving lives. We fundraised for them last year, and I ran over two days. Ran from Cleveland to my hometown of Clyde, Ohio, it's 100 miles, and fundraised online for two months, and then had a big fundraising event at the VFW in my hometown, and my dad's a commander, and we ended up raising $41,000 for so it was just a huge boost from our previous years. And here that comes from about 200 different donors. You know, Rob always appreciate your support and what you do with the Navy SEAL foundation, but you know, in your support of our charities, but if we're going to raise for them again this year, so raising for STRIVE again, I always pick a different charity each year, but I believe in them so much that we're going to raise for them again, and this year will be something much more inclusive, instead of a Dr. Moore is going to go run 100 miles, you know, meet him at the end and pat him on the back. It's going to be a 10 hour relay at my home town's high school track that they've let us take over for the day. And we're going to keep the United States flag running around the track for 10 hours. And anyone can come out, you know, a veteran could come out and do a lap, you know, one of my kids will do a lap or something. And I'll just keep it going between, whenever we get a lull in volunteers to so we'll do the same thing. We're doing online fundraising, then having a big fundraising event afterwards. We're trying to make it more inclusive, more involving the whole community instead of just me.

Cliff  

Why because you found out there's only a certain number of people could run 100 miles, so you had to get people like me involved for one lap followed by nachos?

Cliff  

Oh, that was a long two days last year. And I just, you know, there's a lot of walking in ultra marathons and sort of hiking. And I was like, you know, let's just make this, let's get more people involved. Let's not make it just about me. It feels weird to just, you know, make it about me and my run. So let's get everyone involved and make it more of a community relay with the flag, which I think will be a really fun change to what we've done the past.

Rob Montgomery  

That sounds cool and now Cliff, when you raised $75,000 did you have other people on your team? Or this is just you raising money with with your basically your internal team?

Cliff  

Yeah, I mean, my wife does a great job helping out, spread the word, social media. You know, my mom does the graphic design and helps plan everything. My dad runs the VFW and gets a fundraiser set up. But, yeah, basically we come up with an event. You know, Ohio State is a great job providing, like, a donation website that's really well functioning. I've worked with some smaller, you know, veteran charities in the past that is a little bit harder on the donation side. But, you know, their website is great and dedicated. You know, we can customize it, so we have a lot of help, for sure, but it's just kind of coming out of my head and put it on paper, and it's a lot of legwork and emails and lot of bothering friends and family and patients.

Rob Montgomery  

The legwork. That's what I wanted to that's I wanted to say, like, because initially you were talking about, we raised this money, and so obviously you've got people are helping you, but, but there was no we running 100 miles. It's just, it's just you doing literally all the legwork.

Cliff  

My stepdad rode his bike, you know, pretty slowly with me the last little about, what, 70 miles last year, which is a huge, huge dedication. Yeah, not an easy day for him, just listening to me complain about the wind for, you know, eight or nine hours. But yeah, so he did a great job following me along, and my wife would meet me every 10 miles and provide support and get me the fuel I needed. And I had family members meeting me out in the middle of nowhere on country roads along the north coast, inland trail that we ran down. But yeah, I was the only one technically running from Cleveland to Clyde. I had to map it out and help the watch helped me navigate and everything, but plenty of support along the way. But I guess I was the only one putting the actual steps in this year will be different.

Rob Montgomery  

Yeah, is that is that the longest run that you've done Cliff? 100 miles?

Cliff  

Over two days, yes, I ran 75 miles in one day last March. At one of these backyard Ultras, I'm not refer to these, where you run sort of like 4.1 miles every hour, on the hour, you just go until you every hour until you can't go anymore, so around 75 miles, that's the Ohio backyard Ultra, in Lucasville, Ohio, last March. So that's kind of my one day record. And then my like two day record would be 100 miles, but, yeah, don't have any. I have a 50 miler planned in June, but I don't have any longer ones planned this year. Those longer ones really take a toll.

Rob Montgomery  

How long does it take you to recover from a race like that? Like, let's say that the 100 mile back to back, 50 days. What was the recovery time period? What did, what did you do to recover? And then I'll ask another question. How did that kind of fit into your your dental practice?

Cliff  

Yeah, I mean, how it fits in the dental practice. You know, we did that on a got to Cleveland on Thursday night after working at the office, stayed the night, ran on Friday and Saturday, did the fundraiser Saturday night, and worked on Monday. So tried to recover as much as I could. There's a lot of Paul knows, a lot of standing up and sitting down. I'm in a dental office throughout the day, so I was trying to minimize that. And really, that's, yeah, I've got cold plunge and muscle gun and all that, you know, to be honest, a couple, you know, popping my feet up at the VFW that Saturday night, and a couple, you know, cold ones from the VFW, and just trying to, like, eat and hydrate and stay off your feet. I definitely wasn't 100% covered by Monday. I think I took two, two or three days off and then to slowly build back in. And once you don't have any site specific injuries, you know, if you pull something or break something, obviously. But besides that, I run about 3000 miles a year training, so you, you've kind of got the base, and the idea is not to do something where you're going to get hurt, and I would stop if I thought I was going to get hurt. So the recovery isn't as much as you'd think, although I'm not running any big time races right after that, but you want to kind of get back into running and get those muscles moving again.

Rob Montgomery  

Right, yeah, for sure. Now, when you're you're doing these long runs, are you eating nachos along the way?

Paul Goodman  

What do you eat along the way? The gels? Is it gels and nuts?

Cliff  

That's a good question. I would try to start with what we call like real foods. The honestly, the uncrustables that our kids eat, the PB and J, are really good for the first few hours.

Rob Montgomery  

That kind of qualifies real food, yeah.

Cliff  

You know, close enough. Nachos, I wish, but, yeah, peanut butter, jelly, banana, you know, stuff that you can kind of digest and fills you up. And after a while you just can't, it doesn't, you know, feel like chewing. You don't really, your body doesn't really feel like digesting. And I switched to the gels. And you know, you're drinking a lot of high carb fluids throughout that, you know, just going through coolers full of water bottles and, you know, full of little those sports drinks and stuff like that. But yeah, try to start with some real food. There's some, like Fritos for some sodium, kind of whatever you're craving. Ultra Marathon can definitely be like running, like an eating event interrupted by running sometimes, sometimes because you need to take in just probably burnt 10,000 calories or something doing that.

Rob Montgomery  

So you can't eat enough packets of gel to give yourself fuel at that point, right? I mean, so you kind of have to get stuff.

Cliff  

It's a big topic in Ultra running. And just the carbs, you know, your body can only digest so many per hour, so then how much do you take in? If you take in too much, you get kind of bloated. If you don't take it in enough, you you hit the wall. Yeah. What's the a delicate balance that takes a long time to figure out.

Paul Goodman  

What's the winning time for those 100 miles? Usually like, how fast can someone do that when they're like, the winners?

Cliff  

That's a good question. My coach, my online coach, Zach Bitter, actually holds the US record for 100 miles. He runs in just above 11 hours for that, you know. So that's like under seven minutes a mile to 630 per mile for 100 miles. Yeah. But these like maybe the best ever. So, you know, it's a good time in that sort of like 24 hour, under 20 hour, you know, under 24 hours probably a really good benchmark. Under 20 hours means you're, you know, probably right up there on some major races.

Rob Montgomery  

A lot of these ultra races too, it's not, they don't really lend themselves to, like speed and time either. Like, you're not always running on a on a flat surface, that you can go that kind of speed, right? I mean, like you're you're schlepping around in trails and other other things that just aren't fast, right?

Cliff  

Most of them are, yeah, mountains and trails in Europe and all over. My coach did set that record on a 400 meter indoor track. So he had to run that 400 times.

Rob Montgomery  

That's a whole nother thing.

Cliff  

Most races are run like that. Most are very trail, off road, and most of mine are sort of like that too.

Rob Montgomery  

And so Cliff, do you find like being this active? Does it help you, give you stamina, as a dentist? Does it help you physically to be able to perform in what is obviously a very physically demanding profession?

Cliff  

That's a good question. I definitely think it helps me mentally. I get a lot of time to myself to sort of think through, through problems and, you know, kind of, you know, pray during my run and just kind of filter through like a meditation almost. If you have a really hard workout, you know that you don't really have time for that, but it's just a slow, slow and go. You know how it is, swimming laps and things, you can kind of zone out and get into a sort of meditative state where you're just thinking through things, and your problems don't seem so big when you get done something you might be stressed about, you kind of have some time to think through. I call it free therapy, you know, just out there running, as long as it's not a super hard run. So mentally, it's great. Physically, definitely, I get it out of the way in the morning. I have a good routine with sort of getting some calories in me to start at the office. I would say, optimally if I ran less, but still ran a lot, I would probably be best. I do feel little beat up sometimes after a tough workout or, you know, get to the office, and I could definitely feel a little better, but I definitely have, you know, stamina and muscle strength. I don't really feel the wear and tear in my body that a lot of my colleagues do talk about with with dentistry. So, I would encourage any dentist to, you know, just find a way to move. It doesn't have to be an ultra marathon or anything, if you like, the stair stepper or the walking, swimming, you know, anything. I do think it is a field where you have to stay active to, you know, for a long, healthy career.

Rob Montgomery  

Yeah, a couple things I want to ask you about. I totally agree. I mean, I think you know what you're saying is that, you know, it's definitely a grind when you do those long workouts, or those long races that beat you up. But I'd imagine that you probably go in cycles throughout the year. I mean, you're not going those kind of crazy workouts 12 months out of the year, are you?

Cliff  

Right, I just came off of three months of what I would call off season, which is maybe like 30 to 40 miles a week instead of 50 to 80, you know?

Rob Montgomery  

It's like half, right? It's a big that's a big difference.

Cliff  

Yeah, half of what I usually do is, to me, I love running. I'll do it 300 days a year no matter what, but yeah, definitely feeling less beat up during that time. I wouldn't be as great at jumping out and running a race, a marathon or ultra marathon, but a little more maintenance and not beating up your body constantly. I do probably like, 16 week training programs twice a year and then take, you know, a month or two, this year I took three after the I ran a Columbus in New York City Marathon two weeks apart, and my body was telling me, was telling me it was a break. Like you said that, like, some of the middle workouts, like medium difficult workouts, that's where I feel better at the office each day, they're really tough workouts. I have to really kind of push through the day a little.

Paul Goodman  

Yeah. Do you supplement with any other types of training, like, of, like weights or other types of exercise, or just strictly running?

Cliff  

I should do more of that. I mean, I have good recovery stuff, like a sauna and a cold plunge. I do a lot of stretching and bands and, like, body weight stretching and exercises like, you know, the muscle gun, and just sort of all of, always like working out the mornings run so I can that's my evening routine. When the kids are in bed and you throw something on the TV instead of lay on the couch, I'm kind of stretching and trying to get everything, especially now that I'm 40, getting everything and the kinks worked out. I should do more of the weight lifting and stuff. I do a little bit of it in the off season, but it's hard to do something working out if you don't enjoy it. I mean, that's why people go, Oh, I can't believe you run. It doesn't sound like you should be running. You should be doing something else.

Rob Montgomery  

I can never seem to find time for that other stuff, even though I know, you know, in my head like I should be and and right now, I'm in a place where I need to be, and if I have a choice between going to the gym or getting in the ocean, like the ocean beats it every time.

Cliff  

Exactly. And then it's the balance of, okay, I'm gonna take more time away from either running or my family. I just don't, you know, I value those things too much. And I, yeah, I'd probably be a better athlete and in a little better shape certain ways, if I've lifted three days a week or something. I just don't enjoy, I don't enjoy the time between the sets. I'm going to keep moving. Like, what do you do between the sets when you're lifting? I don't know what to do, walk around.

Rob Montgomery  

Well, you know, I mean, and unfortunately, we're not professional athletes that can just dedicate our lives to to doing that, you know, jobs and families. So unfortunately, the this, all this stuff, is the side hustle. But you know, I find like you're saying that it's good to be able to do something, you know, and that people don't have to do what you're doing, that it is important to move around. And I totally agree. I mean, obviously a day that I swim in the morning or do yoga or some other workout like stuff just does not bother me nearly as much throughout the day, without fail. But I also find that, from my perspective, I'm curious if you feel the same way Cliff, like, if I don't have some sort of race out on the horizon that scares the daylights out of me, then like, I'm not doing it, you know. Like I need something that I get up and like, you know what, I don't feel like doing this. But you know, I'm gonna be swimming 15 miles, and that day is gonna come, and I'm gonna wish that I had gotten out of bed today.

Cliff  

Yeah, when you hit the entry fee, you know, registration site, and hit enter, you know, every day that you want to get up and hit the snooze or something, you go, yeah, you know, especially swimming. I used to do triathlons after the Navy for years, and I wasn't very good at swimming, but I did it, and that literally was scary to me, like I was open water swimming like you I would there are literally things to be afraid of. So yeah, that would good motivation.

Rob Montgomery  

Yeah, but I think it's, you know, it's, but I think it also relates to, I mean, obviously motivation by scaring yourself, but just generally, in life, doing different things and getting out of your comfort zone. Never do you feel like you've got to have your comfort zone done something and said, wow, I wish I hadn't done that.

Paul Goodman  

Yeah, no, it's a it's a good point. Cliff in the dental world, how do you fit this in with your patients and family time? Like we were almost listening saying, I want to do more of this. What's your strategy for the fit it in time in your life?

Cliff  

Yeah, that's the answer no one ever really wants to hear. It's just early, you know. I wake up at five o'clock. Run eight to 12 miles, just depending on the workout. I take, drive my kids to school while I'm getting done sweating. I get back to the house, shower and get to the office. You know, it's just it all has to be done, sort of when my family's sleeping, or a Friday morning after I take them to school and I am off on Fridays.

Paul Goodman  

What are your patient hours during the week?

Cliff  

Monday through Thursday, nine to five. Yeah, really simple. Team friendly hours, you know, I get the office about 8:30am I leave at probably 4:59pm or 5 o'clock. If my kids have a five o'clock sports thing, I'm there. I'm coaching, I'm at all their stuff. I mean, we have about 200 days off a year. We only work about 165 or 170 days a year. It's very balanced towards family, not more, more, more. You know, dental, dental, dental. I'd probably be a better business person if I, you know, work more.

Rob Montgomery  

Hm yeah, maybe not, you know, I think that there, you know, a lot of people, obviously, we could talk about this topic for for the next hour, but, you know, chasing money or revenue, or, you know, the sort of the false status that comes with that and rarely do I see, or have I seen over the years that that necessarily makes people happier.

Cliff  

Yeah, we all know dentists that, you know it does a career, especially if you're a solo practice owner or a majority practice owner, you do the math, and if you work more, you make more. I mean, there's only so many so much fixed income versus variable you know, fixed expenses versus variable expenses? Yeah, if I was open 200 days a year instead 170 I know, I'd make more money. But every time my wife and I sort of make that decision together, we err towards less. And every time I ask my team, are you guys happy? You know, they're our only employees. You know, you guys want to work more. You guys want more time off? Same time off? You know, I found a team that's on the same page as me.

Paul Goodman  

One of the things there's, there's plenty of challenges with dentistry, as they share, but the celebratory thing for dentistry, unlike other careers, is happiness can be dosage dependent. You know, if you chose another career, Cliff, you probably couldn't work 165 days a year, right? Because it just the demands of that career would require more. And I think with people listening, whether they're new dentists or dental students, you know, I was here, my dad's partner at the end of his career, just worked a day a week with us, right? So the dosage of dentistry can be dialed up and down based on your life needs and happiness. And that is a pretty cool part of the profession.

Cliff  

Yeah, I do think a lot of people get drawn into a lot of dentists do to get drawn into just, you know, just, it's a formula, you know, if you work more, you you can make more. So they just do it. And they usually, some thrive, and their W2 or their, you know, bank, their P&L look a lot better than mine do or something, but, you know, it's just a decision my family and I've made, and I'm not, like, you know, trying to brag or, like, look at me, whatever. It's just, you know, it is a lifestyle choice. My wife stays at home and helps with the practice remotely, and she doesn't have a separate income outside of the practice.

Paul Goodman  

What does she do for the practice?

Cliff  

Yeah, she does, like, social media, bookkeeping, non dental ordering, you know, all this sort of keeping the team happy. She'll run and grab Starbucks, you know, stuff, just to support. She volunteers at our kids school a lot, but she does a lot of behind the scenes, like non dental related things, and it's really helpful. Couldn't do it without her. The bookkeeping is probably the big thing there, but yeah, she, you know, she has a master's degree. If she worked in her career, you know, our lifestyle would be different, but it's just, you know, choices we make, and everyone's different. You know, Paul you talk to a lot more dentists than I do, but I talked to a lot of dentists, and it's just super interesting. Every time I get into it with a dentist about how their business, their practices, build and how they do dentistry, it's like it's different every time. I've never met two people where it's the same. That's really unique in the field.

Rob Montgomery  

That's especially, I mean, that's a great thing about being a practice owner. You know that you have the ability to practice how you want, where you want, when you want, and then that's just at the outset Cliff. That's one of the great things to have, that freedom and flexibility. I was listening recently to Arthur Brooks, who's the author that does the stuff about being happy in those books and lectures along on those subjects, and he had a really awesome point. And there's a TED talk on this, which is, are you doing it for your resume or your eulogy, you know? And you think, are you building the resume, or are you really doing things to enrich your life? And I mean, obviously you can't make every single decision every day based on that, but you know, the big time decisions, the high level stuff, like what you're talking about Cliff, which is how you're designing your life, you know, if you were building your resume, well, then that might be along the lines of, let's grow the practice. Let's grow the revenue. Let's work more days. Let's hire more people, let's expand into additional locations. And for some people, that makes them happy. But you know is that the eulogy that you want? Would you rather your eulogy, you know, say this to the listeners be you know that you're doing something like Cliff is doing what you're raising, you know, almost six figures for a great charity, and running and being engaged with the community and taking time to be with your family is your eulogy that, or you know, he was a multi practice owner with 5 million dollars a year in annual revenue. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but, like, there's another path towards being a happy consumer.

Cliff  

Yeah, and I think as long as the decisions you're making, or yeah, in that, in that realm, it makes a lot of sense. I really like the way you put that. I think, you know, my practice model could change in the future, and we could do an episode in a few years, and something is different, but I try to keep perspective, and all that time I spend running kind of helps me keep things in long term perspective, to get a lot of lot of time to think. My kids are, like, almost exact same age as Paul's, seven and 10, and I don't think I'll ever regret having all this time with them, you know, maybe things will change as they get older, and they're not in the house so much anymore or something. But for now, at their ages in the, you know, the past 10 years, I don't have any regrets about, you know, being home or making a little less money.

Paul Goodman  

I wanted to add it's such a good point, because so one of my favorite comedian, Seinfeld, tells the story of, you know, there's like this band, their van breaks down, they're trudging through the snow and freezing cold weather, and they come upon a house with a nice family and a cozy fire, and they look in the window and they say, how can people live like that? Right? And, you know, because clearly, you know, the entertainer wants to be on the road, but it's true for the dentists too, right? I mean, that's where I think our podcast strives to help is like, like you said, Rob, there's someone you know you maybe you know his name, Jason Tenori, but he's a fitness maven like you, in a different way. My joke would be, so he entered a bodybuilding competition recently for 50 year olds, and he had to put all these miles in, you know, on the treadmill. So he bought a treadmill that he put next to his couch so him and his wife could spend time together watching TV while he put his miles in, very Jason Tenori, and he's the opposite. He owns eight practices and doesn't do any clinical dentistry now, which sometimes people say that's so freeing. And he would tell you, it's not as freeing as you think. And I think it's like designing your own life for your own happiness. They don't talk about that enough in dental school. I was lucky to have a dad who kind of did talk about that. I always had this idea of a work life balance. Even back then, he would say, dentistry is my career, my career, not my hobby, you know. So I think it's important that you know you can find so many different ways to feel fulfilled. But like you say, Rob, you don't pay attention to it. You wind up working five days a week, trying to do more and more and more. You miss out on things you're not sure why you do. And I want to look up this Arthur Brooks podcast.

Rob Montgomery  

It's a TED Talk. We can put it up in the show notes too, but it's short, and it's interesting.

Paul Goodman  

Keeping on fitness perspective with Mark Costas. Cliff, so he always talks about how much he loves giving back, right? And going on mission trips. And when he's upset or angry, a mission trip makes him feel better. And you know, he's someone who has 10 practices, you're Cliff with a solo practice doing this? What about a dentist who wants to get started giving back, or doing something like this, and saying, I would like to give back or do something for my community? What advice would you have?

Cliff  

I think it's important for dentists, you know or anyone that has the means, sometimes there's parts of my career where I've had to really grind it out and didn't quite have the time, or means that I do now to give back, but it's meant so much to my career the past 10 years, since being the Navy, to give back to veterans. And I think it starts to just finding something you're passionate about, something, because if you spend all this time, the time you spend doing this, you're obviously not getting paid for you have to be passionate about it. It can't just be a random cause. I think everyone has a sort of cause. Is it rescue animals? Is it, you know, a children's hospital? Is it, you know, veterans? Whatever it is, I think it's really important for dentists and being a professional to find a cause that they're passionate about. And it could just be starting small, you know, I think, like with anything sort of like James Clear type thinking, the atomic habits guy, you know, he would tell you with any habit or anything you're trying to start like this, start small. Just find an organization that already exists, and just dedicate a day your practice to it. Or do something after hours, you know, on the weekend, or something just to volunteer with them, then build it from there. I mean, what I'm doing now is sort of like a little more standalone than what I used to do, but I want to do that, and want to put the time in for that. But I think finding a cause or passion for start small, you know, and build from there. I think the first, you know, we have the free veteran day, um, veteran dental care day each year. There's a lot of practices do that. Well, that's the easiest way to give back, because it's just one day a year, and we're doing the same thing we're doing. Anyways. I don't have to reinvent the wheel or anything. Uh, if you're into rescue animals, it might not work for a free dental day. But, you know, something like that. You know, there's something simple and not reinventing the wheel, starting small.

Paul Goodman  

My dad did that, and we strive to continue it. You know, sadly, some of these programs are struggling to serve but, like, there's a program donated dental, Halo is a program, and I always thought that was nice because, you know, you can do it during your regular day. You sign up to help patients at no cost, who are screened, and it reminds you why you became a dentist. I think that's the easiest way to start small, because at two o'clock you have this patient that you're helping. They're not paying you anything. They're being supported. But it's just kind of like reminds you why you did, you know, go into this profession all the way up to what you're doing now. And I just, I've noticed this trend, and I don't want to brag in this moment Rob and Cliff, but I probably am the person who connects with more dentists than anyone on Earth. I believe this. I have 61,000 people on Facebook. So the theme I see is whether it's Mark Costas or Cliff Moore really, just anyone you know Dennis can be crotchety, as we know Dennis can complain a lot, but this theme of, I give back, and I love this thing I give back to, they become, you know, so passionate about you see them posted on the Facebook group, and it bonds everyone together. Because I don't know if you've noticed on Facebook, there could be some friction, right? Someone does an amalgam. You do a composite Cliff, you know? But, um, it just really, I think is something Dennis should look to do more of on it on any level, because it just think it brings them, brings them happiness.

Rob Montgomery  

Let me jump in too with that. You know, ideal practices, great startup practice consultants. That's a big thing for them. You know, for their clients, is, what is your give back to the community and, you know, and we've represented a lot of their clients over the years, and it's exciting to see that these dentists are opening their practices, and they have nonprofits that are there in mass, whether it's, you know, a mountain biking group that's doing cleanup on trails, or, you know, they're serving veterans, or whatever the case is, like, you know, it's more impactful, and it gives you more purpose if you have some bigger thing that you're doing this for, and, you know, and it translates to. I mean, it connects you with more like minded people that are interested in those same types of missions and charities. And so, you know, what better way, as we talk about the theme of having your own practice and being a practice owner. Well, there are some days that it's less than spectacular. But again, the ability to practice where you want, how you want, with whom you want, but it allows you to do this in a different way and to give back in different ways that are meaningful for you. And you know, look, you know, as great as these professions are, as you said, Paul, you know, it's, this is the profession. It's not a hobby, right? So, you know, the more you can kind of enrich that experience. It just it pays dividends. You know, for you personally.

Paul Goodman  

I want to ask you a question Cliff, and this is why, and I think this is the good about giving back. And I asked this authentically, have any of your patients or people in the community, whether they give you a high five, or say, Oh, that's great. Dr. Moore, you're doing that has that helped make you more known? Or just people say, wow, it's great that my dentist is doing this.

Cliff  

Yeah. I mean, I work with Studio 88 Marketing. I know you do do too, Paul. Josh Scott's been a good friend of mine for 10 years. And you know, one of the owners there, and it's our, you know, he encouraged me a number of years ago to that's our branding. I mean, if you go to our website, it is serving our community. That's our brand, that's who we are, that's our mission, it's our slogan, it's everything. So, yeah, people see it. I mean, I do. I struggle with, you know, is this something I should sort of put out there in the universe or not? And I've talked about it, and, you know, talk to people that I trust about it, and they say, you know, you definitely should. You know, some people just give and don't talk about it but I think we can inspire other business owners and other people to help and give back by telling people about it. And it's our it's our brand, serving our community. We do everything we can to do that. You know, yeah, it's still a business. We're still seeing patients.

Paul Goodman  

I'm with you. People have said this before, like, Oh, don't tell anyone about the good things that you do. I say, why not? It inspires other people to do it. You might even, inspire someone scrolling on their phone and say, I didn't even know you could do this. And also, we tell our children, be proud of what they do, and we should be proud of what we do for people too. And it shouldn't be an ego thing. It should be an enthusiasm thing.

Cliff  

Yeah, I think you're right. You know, when I first owned a practice and started doing these things, I kind of struggled with it. But, you know, the 10 years in, you know, there's, I've never regretted giving back or doing anything, I would encourage any business owner to do the same. I doubt anyone's ever regretted time they've spent or money they spent giving back. And I think you get back more than you give. And you're right, you know, if you do it the right way, telling people about it, you know, can spread the word about opportunities that they could have and they can really, for me, it helps the networking of just getting in touch with other veteran groups and spreading the word about what, you know, what we do. I'm so passionate about STRIVE and what they do for veterans and first responders, so that I have no problem, you know, little bit of the wrong person reading it the wrong way. It was, well, outweighed by what we can do just to spread the word about the organizations that we help.

Rob Montgomery  

That's great. So on that note, Cliff. Just gonna wrap things up, but tell our audience, listeners a little bit more about STRIVE. Where can they learn more about that charity? Where can they go to support you with your fundraising efforts?

Cliff  

Yeah, our fundraising link for our Buckeye funder site for STRIVE, the tribute relay for heroes. Last year was a tribute trail for heroes because I ran that trail for 100 miles. This year is a tribute relay for heroes. That link will be up soon. I was hopefully by the time the show is up, I've been in communication with them all week and getting that going, but I'll give that link to you as soon as I can. Or you can follow my social media. Use Clifford Moore on Facebook or @LC_dentists on Instagram. I'll have stuff up there about our fundraiser this year. They can learn more about STRIVE. Just Google STRIVE Ohio State, and it talks about their PTSD and suicide ideation. You know, mission and treatments their cutting edge researchers, 50 plus research grants active on trying to find the best treatment for veterans and first responders who are in a bad place mentally and yeah, I'll be posting all about the next two months, about, you know, on on Dental Nachos, and all my social media, about our fundraiser, the tribute relay for heroes that'll be on Saturday, May 3rd in Clyde, Ohio. We'll be online fundraising to Ohio State's website for the next two months, and then have a big fundraising event on Saturday, May 3rd in Clyde.

Rob Montgomery  

Perfect. We'll be sure to get that up in the show notes, let us know once that link is available, and again, in the meantime, to help people to learn more about STRIVE. That's great. And you know, it's great having you on the show again, Cliff, thanks for taking the time. We look forward to having you come back in a few years. If things change, I'm going to be disappointed if things change, and you've turned into a pickleball player right now.

Paul Goodman  

He's going to have an associate work two days a week and be able to do more of this. So that's the next phase.

Cliff  

That's great. And who knows where life goes. But I'm, you know, just super happy to try to spread the word about just staying active as a dentist for a healthy career, and then giving back, finding a cause that you're passionate about, and giving at least a little bit of time and effort towards that. And if anyone has more questions about that, please just reach out to me personally. I love connecting with dentist. I was down at Ohio State's campus today with a student I mentor that's on an army scholarship down there, and just kind of connecting with them. Going to talk to Miami University pre dental club next month. I used to run the predoc club there as an undergrad. So I go back and and talk to them. So I try use a little bit of my time to give back to younger dentists. And you know, who knows? Maybe I'll have one of those associates you're talking about one day, Paul.

Paul Goodman  

I like seed planting, just like implants stuff, right?

Rob Montgomery  

Thanks Cliff for all you do. And you really are an inspiration to me personally, too. So I like following you, what you're doing athletically, and all the good stuff that you do for the charity. So keep it up, man.

Cliff  

Yeah I get back from the long run and check, you know, Strava, and see how many miles you swam. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I couldn't, I couldn't as much as I run. I can't do that for doing stuff anymore.

Rob Montgomery  

I've been in a funk brother, I'm working on it, but summers around the corner, so I got to get my act together.

Paul Goodman  

Thanks so much Cliff, you're awesome.

Cliff  

Thank you guys so much for having me.

Rob Montgomery  

Thanks, Cliff.

Paul Goodman  

It's always so inspiring. You know, this treatment plan to dental term, his life to fit his own happiness while giving back staying fit. And sounds like his team and him are on the same page. And that's the point of being able to do this whole thing.

Rob Montgomery  

Yeah I mean, I look at him and I see a fulfilled professional, you know. And you definitely have to make choices sometimes. But the great thing is, when you are a practice owner and a professional, you get to make those choices, you know. And Cliff is certainly an inspiration, I think, to all of us, as far as what he does physically, and then also, even more so, what he does for for charities, and how he weaves it into the fabric of his practice is really commendable and inspiring, and I think it's something that a lot of people should take notice of.

Paul Goodman  

I totally agree. I was just in a the webinar with one of the leaders in dentistry. I want to add this in. I said, the last question, I said was, what advice would you give to a young dentist, new dentist today? And he said, Be careful who you listen to. He said, when I got a dental school, I listened to this person who told me, kind of sent me in the wrong direction. I would add that to just listen to as many voices as possible, create your own drive. You could be Jason Tenori, who's a fitness fanatic and has eight practices. Be Cliff Moore does this with a solo practice. And that's just, I think more dinners should pay attention to that.

Rob Montgomery  

Yeah, absolutely. And everybody the links to support STRIVE and Cliff will be up in the show notes, so I encourage you to go on there and support them. Thanks Paul. Thanks everybody for listening.

Paul Goodman  

Awesome, Rob.

Bumper  

Thanks for listening to another great podcast with the Dental Amigos. And don't forget to tune in next time to have the dental business demystified. If you're looking for more information about today's podcast, you can find it on the dental amigos.com if you're looking for Paul, you can find Paul at drpaulgoodman.com and if you're looking for Rob, you can find him at yourdentallawyer.com This podcast has been sponsored by Orange Line Media Group, helping dentists and other professionals create content people love. Find out how we can help you take your business to the next level at www.orangelinemg.com. Till next time.